Democratic Deficit in the Minmatar Republic

Alright Miss Kim, I understand. I’ll try to avoid speaking about you to your detractors from now on.

I guess that would be 80% of IGS but I’ll probably be able to manage.

4 Likes

Ms. Riuil, did I said it not clear enough?
You can speak about me with detractors and people who disagree with me, I was asking to cease discussion of my person with obvious trolls. And in the discussions that wasn’t about my person initially - but it is the obvious place where trolls do that.

It is really simple to recognize a troll, as their posts follow this simple behavior:

  1. They start talking about me, when the discussion wasn’t about me.
  2. They attack my person when they can’t attack my ideas or comments.
  3. They claim unverifiable or straightforward lie about me, trying to represent it as believable.

And finally, while it is not characteristic, it is still quite common in their behavior:
3a) When I refute their baseless claim about me (often by a mere fact that they were simply baseless), they oh so love to claim that it was me who was trying to turn the conversation to discussion of my person, while it was directly opposite.

So, once again, if you see a troll trying to start a discussion about me in a place not suitable for that, and you feel an urge to reply to them, please, for the sake of the Maker and all the Winds,

discuss their persons instead.

Oh, let me contemplate on the importance of names of some tribals living in the other part of the cluster, and encounters with whom usually end with them slandering our uniform…

My instructor was telling me: “Stop trying to learn everything. You won’t be able to get the most important knowledge anyway, and the majority of available knowledge doesn’t even worth the media it is written upon.”

Now, lets contemplate together on the meaning of the ignorance. I don’t really discuss minmatar bloodlines, do I? The only place where I find it useful to read about them is that CONCORD publication with statistical comparison of different mental characteristics among bloodlines, and… that’s all. My main issues against Tribals is not their bloodlines, but they are bullying the Empire and attack them only because they have slavery. That’s mine #1 issue with them, and I won’t go describing others in here, because, trust me, or no, they aren’t related to bloodlines anyway. And when I will need to speak my mind about something, I’ll either read published information about it (like the CONCORD paper I’ve referenced), or simply ASK instead of making a stupid assumption like so many people in here love to do. I value my reputation and try to commit as little factual errors as possible.

But nobody knows everything. And theoretically can’t know everything. And you can’t just blame people in ignorance because they don’t know something they don’t need. You just make yourself looking dumb.

For example, if you don’t know my rank, if you can’t read my insignia, that doesn’t make you ignorant, because you don’t really need that to know. You aren’t Caldari, you aren’t in the State chain of command. If you tell me that you don’t know my rank, I will never call you an ignorant.

But if you will claim that I am not a Caldari officer, or that I don’t have State issued rank, in that case I WILL call you an ignorant and shove your nose into my insignia.

Feel the difference already?

Again you employ the troll gambit. I suspect that you are feeling a bit defensive given the direction that this and other threads you’ve started have gone. The fact is that I bear a grudging admiration for your ability to keep a discussion going. If stating this admiration, grudging though it may be, is trolling then you might be working off a different definition than I am. In fact, if my activities count as trolling in your eyes it may be that you need thicker skin.

4 Likes

Not all Ad Hominem is fallacious. Sometimes it’s just an insult, and well deserved. Particularly when they do attack one’s comments and ideas, then call one an idiot for having them.

Latching onto ad hominem is done so often and most frequently, I’ve observed, by those loosing to actual arguments by their opponents. Accusations of ad hominem are often used as a complaint to the audience about the “big meanies” to gain audience sympathy and win through emotional appeal. Wouldn’t you agree that you’re above that Ms. Kim?

4 Likes

You’re just mad because you lost that duel.

3 Likes

Last duel I’ve lost was against Ms. Jenneth several months ago, but you know nothing about that to talk about it (speaking about ignorance).
In fact, that one duel was more like a draw. Or maybe Ms. Jenneth lost it… well, it’s dubious, so I am not going to get into details.
Another one that I definitely lost was earlier against Templar Vadam before he lost his honor. But that you for sure didn’t see as well.

I actually agree that resolve to ad hominem signifies opponent’s disability to object against offered theses, while he can’t accept it and want just to object with whatever even if there’s nothing really to object with.

I consider it a lost cause and if I see that, yes, I do call them for that, either just saying they are trolls, or that they use ad hominem. But I do that not to gain sympathy, but to show them that I do not consider their argument as worthy anymore, nor consider them worthy themselves, and my replies to them have basically same meaning of “I am not interested in wasting time on you anymore, words about me were lie, shut up and go away.” Just said with more words.

Maybe you should get Yucie to remind you. Or any of the people who witnessed your bleating afterwards.

3 Likes

Well, Ms. Ambrye, if you’d like to see what I call trolling, it’s the “comments” like this one:

Which are offensive, incorrect and utterly wrong.

That sort of misbehavior is actually a reason why I dis tribals in general often. You basically can’t make a civilized conversation with such a specimen.

That’s like, textbook of everything YOU do yourself. You take absolutely everything, things that are not even related to you, personally and lash out on people who don’t even know what they did wrong, and you always attack people, not their arguments. Often with the lowest form of retort you can, by assaulting something on their person, ethnicity, sex, or just anything you can outwardly latch on to. Then you go spread lies about them, or just about anything you don’t like, in a much more malicious way than anyone else I’ve ever seen.
No, Kim, you are what you hate. And you’re too blind to even see it.

5 Likes

Ms. Kim, what would it take to change your mind that someone’s claims, such as Arrendis’s in your example above, are correct and not merely trolling?

1 Like

Cutting my mind off and replacing it by sheep’s mind, obviously. Then when my clone will begin bleating for real, Arrendis claim will become correct and not merely trolling.

But considering I will not allow such a manipulation on my body, her claim will stay a horrific example of a tribal savagery.

Now here comes a real question: what would it take to change mind of Arrendis to turn her into actual respectable person, with whom one could discuss a random topic politely?

I’m not sure how to interpret that. Does this mean that you won’t accept any evidence, no matter it’s veracity, if it disagrees with your claims or counter claims? Please clarify as I feel I’m in jeopardy of misrepresenting you here.

But this isn’t about Arrendis, dear. This is about you.

2 Likes

Oh, I will gladly accept any evidences, but that claim made by Arrendis is so atrocious, it’s already quite obvious for everyone that there won’t be any evidences to that. There’s nothing much to discuss on that matter.
Tell me yourself, what will take you to accept a hypothetical claim, for example, that you are a slug?

Considering there’s nothing in her words that would describe me, I strongly disagree. It IS about Arrendis, not about me. There’s nothing to discuss about me, based on words of such… “speaker”. On the other hand, it’s her behavior that shall be discussed and put into example for others, so they won’t behave like her and will keep this place clean.

I’d like to remind you that Diana Kim declared me a traitor for refusing to murder an innocent man, despite the evidence presented at the time.

3 Likes

Not to take away from the current sudden turn of topic, but I was wondering where the continuation of the democracy debate had moved. The Mo’Lathun have been in a unending series of debates on this since the beginning of the contriversy and I have been in clan conclaves for weeks neglecting my mining and building going over ideas of patliment vs tribal councils vs Sanmatar leadership.

The Mo’Lathun has a long history of darker parts of the resistance that has transformed into invlusion of othe peoples of the cluster from all our interactions with members of all the empires during the darker times of the wars.

While we support the old ways of the tribal councils that saw the matari peace of centuries, we see in the modern age that a more centralized descision making aparatus may be needed.

Caldari corps and Amarrian violent colonization can be vilified but their effectiveness can not be ignored. Bent to the needs and peaceful administration of the republic, this kind of centralized control with tribal oversight might see a new focused direction for the Matari people.

I wont pretend to have an opinion of the listed contenders, Rella and Rhiannon, but a single voice that speaks at the end of the day might be the logical next step of the republic

2 Likes

We seem overly focused on Arrendis’s claim. I only included it in my post because you included it in your reply to me.

A slug? I’m not sure if you’re trying to insult me here or not, but I’ll take it good humor. If you showed me incontrovertible evidence that I was indeed a slug then I would have either have to accept it or insist that the evidence, even if overwhelming, is somehow wrong and therefore reality as well. I would find it an extraordinary claim and would require good evidence to accept it. Does that answer your question?

I disagree. My question was directed at you, it wasn’t directed at Arrendis and, as I must remind you, I only used her claim as an example because you did. This is about you.

Let’s try to stay focused on that and not drag other people’s behaviors in. What are your standards for evidence?

3 Likes

Pretty much, yes, thank you.
And now I understand why you were asking me this question.
I just have to say that we are completely different people, and while you will allow others to prove you that you are something that you are clearly not… I will not let others do that to me.
For me, not being a slug is already an observable fact (taking into account biological definition of slug and human), and any attempt of disproving it will be a fault.

Objective and verifiable observation.

The Minmatar do have a democratic system. One member, one vote. Quite equitable really.

Summary

One Tribal Council member, one vote.

3 Likes