Dev blog: Moon mining revamped - There’s Ore in Them Thar Moons


(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #421

i’m not sure yet but I think each ore includes some of each component, so some goo A, some goo B, and some ore C. You’ll get the ore at the same time, i.e. in the act of mining the moon goo as now required, the miner will also get some ore included. This will reduce the amount of low end ores to import from other space, thus making manufacture easier in null.

(Querns) #422

Importing minerals? What? Who in nullsec does that?

(Zetakya) #423

Let’s be honest, we are both guessing until we see the final distribution of moons in Delve, Querious and Fountain.

People who don’t live in Delve :stuck_out_tongue:

(Querns) #424

It matters less than you’d think.

Given Delve’s superlative moon distribution today, it’s overwhelmingly likely that it is weaker after re-roll, if only by obeying simple laws of probability. However, we have no ability nor impetus to leave Delve – we’re outmatched in PVP, and we have far too many structures and far too much invested in Delve to make moving feasible. We pretty much have to eat whatever sandwich we get, whether it’s a delicious sandwich or a sh``it sandwich.

Fortunately for us, the mining prowess of the rest of the galaxy is utterly weaksauce. Even if we get a crappy hand, we’re going to be much better at exploiting the hand we do get than anyone else, and will likely profit the most from it anyways.

(Dinsdale Pirannha) #426

So much utter crap in one post.

Poor goons will somehow lose out in the moon redistribution…sure.
And outmatched in PvP…not even worth contesting that lie.

(Querns) #427

Seems pretty simple to me, if you disregard the weird, paranoid vignette where we dictate to CCP what moons we get and they obey. Right now, Delve is a top 3 moon region in Eve. As such, a random re-roll is overwhelmingly likely to place us at a lower tier, just because it’s hard to meet or beat #3 or better.

Did you miss 2016?

(Nevyn Auscent) #428

You mean the war you didn’t fight that hard but instead chose to withdraw from rather than engage in clashes of titans?
That war is not an indication of who is outmatched in PvP.
Though it’s pretty irrelevant to this thread either way.

More on topic. You could relatively slip but absolutely gain also. Since moons are becoming more active the value of a moon is more about how well you use it. Not a fixed sum anymore. So while goon space may no longer be a theoretical top 3 it is likely to be the top region for actual use of the moons and therefore goo production.

(Querns) #429

Sure it was – we were outblobbed, and as such, outmatched in PVP.

Our presence is a massive galvanizing force, so we’re not able to be effective until we can oppose the rest of the game working together. It sucks, but that’s the reality. Until then, we’re confined to Delve.

Why not take more pride in this fact? It’s a significant accomplishment.

The accusation was that we were somehow going to get better moons out of the bargain due to foul play. I’m not sure if we’re being accused of receiving concessions from CCP, or being accused of queering the output of a pseudo-RNG through psychovirtuakinetic dominion over a computer algorithm. That latter bit comes in handy when playing online blackjack.

Given that the manpower remains the same in either case, though, we simply have to look at the odds that we do better than now. Since Delve is in the top three, doing better than we have now is a very low probability.

(Nevyn Auscent) #430

Only measure by ranking rather than by absolute output.
Given goons ability to use space I expect the absolute output to increase from that area.
If this is a good or bad thing I don’t know. It depends how everyone else uses their space and moons and how competitive the market is. A new tech consortium would be bad. But that’s on more than just goons if that happens.

And well. Obviously it’s both conspiracies… Though I do think the current development process does tend to overly favour null on the whole im pretty sure thats management philosophy. Not collusion.
And even I have to agree with doing the changes to method first then looking at wh and high moons later rather than doing both at once.

(Zetakya) #431

This is almost guaranteed. Unlike the other NullSec players, Goonswarm Federation is primarily an empire-building Alliance. The other major NullSec entities are “An Army with a Country”, to borrow the description of 19th century Prussia, and so unable to match Goons ability to exploit resources within Delve, Querious and Fountain.

(Querns) #432

Fountain? What?

(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #433

The very essence of this concept fills me with glee and a warm gelatinous throbbing, akin to standing next to a large bass speaker.


(Jenn aSide) #434

This poster (who understands that no one owes any of us anything) should be on the CSM. I’m totally serious.

(zluq zabaa) #435

While there is precedence in past scandals to feed such ideas, Nullsec groups with already heavy mining operations will profit from the changes and a number of CCP Devs originally comes from Nullsec groups, you shouldn’t mix up correlation and causation. Put your tinfoil hat away for a moment and think about it from this perspective: Changes to mechanics are at least in some way always influenced by players raising awareness or taking part in discussions. There is no need for some kind of back-channeling with CCP Devs by any Null group to be able to have greater influence on such changes than any smaller group or solo player. It is simply that a group of 1000 players yields a stronger voice than 5000 solo players because the first will be far more visible and taken more seriously. EVE is advertised as a universe in which players, given basic mechanics, create most of the game themselves. Everyone takes part in that, no matter if conciously or not. Large groups do, solo players do. The difference is often that a solo (non twitching) player has far less gravitation. Now for CCP or any Dev it is far easier to understand and magnify for advertisement purposes what large groups (esp. Nullsec) are doing, than for solo/small group players respectively. Concerns by solo players are seen as single opinions and not as expressions of a coherent experience thousands of players make. And to be fair it is pretty hard to distinguish self-serving ■■■■■■■■ from solo-guys from something that many people have a problem with.

So, I think you’re wrong in your assumption that Goons or whoever has to go an extra mile to influence CCP in ways, that Devs would risk to lose their jobs. On the downside, I think CCP often enough falls into the trap of mixing up correlation and causation as well, when they try to perceive the realities of EVE. Meaning that in my eyes they have no really good way of understanding how the entirety of their mechanics makes the game much less a universe of possibilities for everyone than they like to advertise it. If someone could provide coherent data of how a large amount of players is by mechanics put into a corner of no-fun limited amount of choice and how this leads to low retention rates and basically no growth in number of players, I bet CCP would immediately start changing things big-time. The constant lobbying by large groups is surely a small part of why this is not happening, but really only a small part and surely not anything they’d need to secretly influence CCP Devs with.

P.S. things that have been said years ago should not be taken as granted forever. Large groups have probably way more work to do adapting to such changes than high-sec dwellers, but I’m part of neither, so I can only assume.

(token trade alt) #436

It’s a great idea, I just wish mining wasn’t so godforsakenly horrible and didn’t make me feel like I had to sub more accounts to make it worthwhile. Maybe that’s part of your business model? Yeesh.

I mean, I’d be 100% behind it if mining on one single account didn’t feel like a complete and absolute waste of time.

(TheGuy Akachi) #437

I know right? Well I’m hoping the will revise the mining mechanic after they add and balance the new refineries.

If they are going to change it, it would be after the release. It seems the changes they are adding to EVE are leaning more to non-AFK gameplay, so I am hopeful going into the future.

Also from what I heard this is supposed to be kind of like a corporations own created “incursion-like” event. Bringing all players in a corporation to participate, whether it be mining or defending. Suposed to be the money making aspect of a corporation. So that has me hoping some of that ISK will go to solo miners pockets.

(Pleasure Hub Node-514) #438

Regardless of it being in high-sec, there’s a lot of interesting potential here with NPCs interaction particularly if they have access over the mining ledger and send you a bill for ore extracted from their zone. If you don’t pay the ore extraction bill your standing with that NPC corp drops. If you pay up on time, standing rises.

In a similar token, if you designate various NPC mining corps than can use your moon belt (e.g. wave their extraction fee), standing can be built that way and they may assist you with reps in a defense fleet if a 3rd party aggressor enters.

I would like to see NPCs take up a roll as an economic safety net for extracting and seeding mats at a markup. NPCs could also take over some capacity of gathering moon survey data that you buy at a high LP+ISK cost.

(Sgt Ocker) #439

Do you read the rubbish you post before hitting REPLY or just write the first thing that comes to mind and go from there…

Of course he was a part of it…He was active at the time as a member.

You can’t be a member of a group then say i’m not part of it (or have someone else say it for you).

(Sgt Ocker) #440

Why would you want to break a mechanic designed to get REAL PEOPLE out in space by adding NPC’s to it?

Nulsec NPC’s and standings - If you live in nulsec you will not have positive standings with the local NPC’s, even those who do nothing other than mine in nul will have negative standings due to killing belt or anom rats.

As for moon mats in highsec, sure if CCP wants to break another aspect of game play, why not…

If you want to do moon mining move somewhere it is available. Those who are too scared to leave highsec complaining about no conflict or wanting conflict drivers, is a load of BULL. If you want conflict just leave the safety of highsec. Don’t ask for other aspects of the game to be nerfed so you can have more things with little to no risk…

(Azmya Nakamura) #441

@CCP :

Could you please envisage something for WH space ? We do not require Moon Mining materials but at least a standard belt of enriched asteroids would be great to have !

That would keep the balance with 0,0 (no mmon materials for T2 prod) but give WH players a nice feature and a reason to put theses refineries.

If not better to stay with a POS for us.

Thx in advance.