And like all these ‘just make them drop loot’ solutions, People simply stop using them. And the game suffers for it.
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I dont think everyone will stop using them, just like people never stopped using POSes.
And if items drop depends on people. Allocation of resources, their ability to move stuff around. It gives more variation to gameplay.
So I can just put piles and piles of Veldspar in my hangar, and let that form the majority of the 20% drop?
Pick again.
If you like to keep separate 1 veldspar in each pile, then sure. I have just seen two piles of ammo, 1 unit and 31,444 units piles, dropped this big pile, destroyed the 1 unit pile. You may seek the solution to the problem and its fine. 
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So you’re saying that 20% of whole stacks, not individual items should drop?
I think it should be like in loot drop for ships, just the destroyed should not be destroyed but placed into asset safety.
I think 20% should be the least it should drop, not less. Up to 100%. I dont know why system should be fair in the frst place. CCP should give possibility to extract it by the players tho, before it will be destroyed. Extract physically as in ships cargohold.
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Maybe for Scrambler use Limited Engagement Timer. If you don’t shoot stucture, scrambler can’t be use.
Thank you, CCP! You’ll kill all small corp in w-space with this update.
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We are mostly lazy and min/maxing encourages their use through better production/refining/pricing compared to NPC options.
So they’ll still be used and people will still load them up.
POS had better production & better refining.
Sure, marginal use happened, but on the whole POS didn’t get much uptake, as shown by the manufacturing graph released soon after EC came out as to where production was done over time. Even including the fact that certain manufacturing had to happen at POS’es which given it was things like supers would naturally inflate the value relative to the number of people actually using it didn’t give POS a good result.
So we have clear evidence that without asset safety people don’t use structures much. This isn’t me whistling in the wind, it’s looking at hard data for clear trends.
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You’re kidding right?
Moon mining, reactions, wormhole living, ore compression, capital production…POSs are still being killed at higher rates than Upwell structures - there’s still tonnes of them around.
Can you post the link?
I dont recall any data showing POS weren’t used much, but if it’s there it would be good to see.
Sorry for using the Imperium as the link, just did a Google search, pretty sure it was in a Dev blog at one stage also but not sure which. I mean yes, you posted a bunch of exclusive content that only POS got to use which meant POS had to be used for those things. But when you think that Supers & Titans are part of that POS manufacturing, and all the Capital parts, the numbers really don’t leave that much room for other manufacturing.
EC’s provided a very clear shift out of stations. And given POS already had better stats than stations, it’s also quite clear that asset safety must be a large part of the reason the shift happened.
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So prior to the introduction of Upwell structures, 30% of all manufacturing was done in Starbases and that indicates they didn’t have a big uptake?
Manufacturing doesn’t include moon mining, ore compression or reactions (until the recent changes to roll that into the industry UI).
If that’s the data showing POS weren’t used much, then it’s a bit of a stretch because - it doesn’t show all aspects of POS and still 30% of manufacture was in starbases.
There has to be better data than that.
If only 30% of manufacture moved to Upwell structures, that would still be good uptake - not even considering refineries and their importance to T2 production.
Go take a run through nullsec and look at the systems that don’t have outposts. Upwell structures are everywhere, because they are convenient and provide safety. That won’t change even if there is no asset safety.
They’ll still be convenient (just as POS were for that purpose too) and will still be loaded up with stuff because of that convenience.
The whole idea that you dont even need to turn up to defend your stuff because of asset safety is just crazy. We as a community conned CCP into believing it was necessary. The game would be more conflict driven without it (as the data from wormholes shows).
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I would not voluntarily put any BPO in a upwell structure without asset safety. I am already extremely reluctant to do that in a structure with AS because the slightest mishap can ruin weeks or months of time investment (stuff runs out of fuel, owner goes away, war dec with structure destruction, etc). The fact that you think you don’t need to show up to defend a multibillion structure with potentially lots of research going on or expensive production on the line is ludicrous. Besides, all these things were secure before in out posts, too. No one conned anyone, it is just the same as before: POS were destructible, production materials in outposts safe - Structures are destructible and production materials in them are safe. And just like before anything in progress gets trashed if the structure goes out in a blaze of fire.
The difference between POS and structures is that you cannot use safety by obscurity as a layer of security. I had a POS near Amarr for a while for copying and invention, that was still very hard to find because of all the other POS and lots of moons and the fact that they don’t show on overview and in space brackets. Structures offer none of these benefits.
Where are more conflicts in W-space? 
Most of its best areas are controlled by a hand full of people and the population is next to nothing.
Besides, without AF, there would be less conflict because fewer people would use them, and fewer people would be willing to go out into space where they are necessary in the first place, because everything you own could be trashed by the blob and you could not do anything about it. That is not encouraging conflict.
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Since holding Sov is rather pointless now, surely making Fozziesov in favour of the defenders really makes it even more pointless now.
Other than for the giggles, whats the point?
If you want to keep space, anchor 15 citadels and see who can be arsed to a) attack them at once in an AUZ timezone and b) do this 2/3 times.
The destruction rates for structures across all space for 2017:
More Citadels were destroyed in W-Space than anywhere else, despite W-Space representing just 4% of the character base (assuming the last figures on character distribution from CCP in the link are still correct).
Don’t take my word for it. Go grab the data and analyse it for yourself.
Even with just 4% of the population, W-Space has almost the same destruction of Engineering Complexes as the other regions too (higher than lowsec and close to highsec, both of which are not far from null in relation to those structures).
The figures don’t lie. They are what they are. Far lower population of characters with higher destruction rates (and overall much more deadly than any other area of space on a per character basis).
On a per character basis, highsec is an order of magnitude safer than the next closest area of space (in relation to Structures safety) and based on the count about a year ago (the data is in a thread on the old forums and I can’t find it right now because I can’t search the old forums), the average lifespan of a Citadel in highsec was estimated at 2 1/2 years (based on total numbers back then and destruction rate).
I suspect, that as moon mining become available in W-Space, the destruction of Refineries will increase also.
No asset safety = more conflict and based on the numbers for POCO and POS (where J-Space is similar to other k-space regions), the lack of asset safety is a driver of that conflict. The game needs more of that, not less.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Rest easy. CCP don’t seem to be showing any sign of taking EVE back to the harsher game it was. The move to a softer game appears to be under no threat.
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It also takes less time to kill them. Sure, no asset safety does help a lot with the satisfaction of a loot pinata at the end of your weekend bash roam. Even smaller WH groups feel more inclined to try a bash roam with a shorter engagement timetable.
As for POS bashing numbers in null, dreads make that ezpz.
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Yes agreed. No option to cyno in though. It all has to be bought in and taken out again. That sort of balances the reduced time to a degree, in that the overall logistics are a bit more difficult.
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And that’s another aspect to a satisfying loot drop in j-space. If you manage hole control, you keep the defenders from absconding with many treasures.
The game never was as harsh as you are claiming it was.
POS you could run from a corp office meaning the goods were never physically in the POS.
Outposts your goods have always been 100% safe.
And jumping back to Null situation 10 years ago is laughable as a comparison to now since 1 capital back then was amazing, not 100 Supers being common place. So the scale of firepower you had to defend against was vastly lower making a POS actually significant.
And no, pointing at WH situation does not provide any examples that apply to anywhere else. Just like the WH players keep claiming whenever people point at a K space situation and talk about WH’s. There are a whole list of fundamental differences in the space, of which asset safety is one of the smallest.
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