Well at less we can agree to disagree. The principles don’t stay the same sorry. Thank you for the feedback tho.
Google servers don’t care about perfect synchronicity. Hence my point. Handing stuff off like that results in you having desyncs far more often than currently happens.
Especially since its not 900000 lines of code. It’s 900000 objects each calling a few lines of code but with calculations that scale in a more than linear fashion as more other objects are on grid.
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Bingo! The common sense answer.
@CCP_Fozzie Hey many - just make the repair timer reflect damage dealt… Like for every 10% health missing add 100% to the repair timer. Equation would be like Future Repair Timer = (% Health) * (10) * (Previous Repair Time) + (Current Repair Time).
Let’s say 10% of the health is missing at 15 minutes repair time paused: Future Repair Timer = [(0.10) * (10) * (15)] + 15 >>> Future Repair Timer = 30 minutes.
Let’s say 50% of the health is missing at 5 minutes repair time paused: FRT = [(0.50) - (10) * (5)] + 5 >> FRT = 25 minutes - the attacker should have been more offensive in the beginning.
The server can run the calculation like once a minute or something.
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It’s not actually. The repair timer forces you to control the grid, not just blob with logi on grid, since one logi can outrep 1 DPS typically.
This was all covered in the introduction of repair timers.
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Currently on Tranquility, fighters can be launched and moving and their parent ship will remain tethered. Its only when performing aggressive actions that their parent ship would become untethered.
After this upcoming release, any ship that has launched and connected fighters will remain untethered until the fighters are returned or abandoned.
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I like the idea of defenders having to repair the citadel however if the citadel is not contested. Repping a structure is boring and can be used by attackers as a weapon.
maybe leave the self repair as it is however as soon as it receives significant damage, enough to prevent sending a handfull of ships at a citadel then the citadel loses its repair ability and could spin some lore around it redirects power to defences/weapons and then relies on repairs from fax/logi.
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Totally null and big group bias again. So Highsec will get the nerf for defenders only, no at least small buffs to compensate for? You know, none of the effective weapons on structures are available in highsec. The GTFO would have been at least a slight annoyance for attackers.
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Upwell 2.0 is kind of looking bleak now for any small to medium High-Sec groups there is little or no improvement to anything. I was really trying to be positive about this update to structures, then CCP goes and removes 2 of the most useful features, the 5 min fitting timer and the GTFO though I doubt it would have worked in Empire all AOE weapons seem not fit in Empire and you don’t get told till you fit it, bad design there.
I am not sure of the reasoning it has been I think 11 days at this point since the blog and it isn’t like there has been an excessive period of time to test the features. So how has CCP or even the few people who have even got to the point of testing these features come to the conclusion. If it is the null blocks making a decision for everyone then maybe, add some more features exclusive to Empire space for once.
It would have been good to see automated defences see a return to structures, with 24h vulnerability very few groups even have the manpower to cover a structure that long yet you impose this on every structure user, without taking all the consequences into account. This move alienates small and medium groups, to the point they may decide not to use the feature because they are unable to defend it. I am sure there are many industrialists and miners who would love to have structures they could use to do their stuff, but because they are as effective as a wet tissue defensively why would anyone want to own or operate one knowing that any one can take it as long as they have more Logistics ships than there is ECM and nuet mods. Defence of a structure is balanced too far towards the aggressor.
Using fighters is still going to be like using spit-wads made of money against enemy ships. The missiles when they hit an enemy ship you may as well be sitting there in a Battleship for all the damage they do. The Astrahus is about where I think the Raitaru and Athanor should be defensively at least they would have some teeth when an enemy fleet comes calling. Then the Citadel line should just be upgraded completely they need way more firepower.
Facing off against a structure should be something to be excited about on both sides, if you are a small corp you want to be able to face off against a fleet and maybe even win even if you are just 1 guy. The structure should be a force multiplier and be something scary to be conquered, something cool to talk about after the fact if you finally win against it. Right now there is nothing special about taking out a Structure, it isn’t hard it might be rewarding (ISK wise) but lets face it turning up for 3 timers and shooting for 30 mins is not challenging at all.
Though I am sure the GTFO might not have made a huge difference, it would have allowed the removal of those troublesome Logistics from the field, maybe just enough to turn a fight. Removing the 5min fitting timer, now what is easier than shooting an empty barrel I don’t see that as an improvement I see that as certain groups pushing to make their lives easier.
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Poses did have Ewar. Ever faced a dickstar before?
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So once again you make a change to address a huge coalition problem that doesn’t actually fix it, and disproportionally makes the game harder for smaller groups. A 30 minute hull timer wouldn’t of made a different outcome happen in the Pandemic horde Keepstar fight. I appreciate everything is supposed to be pure risk out in nullsec and I am okay with that. But doubling the hull timer is a bit extreme.
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I understand there are issues with it, but as a logi/fax pilot I sure as hell miss the days when we had a use in repair of POS’s (Which are now obsolete for almost everything.) and it’s really damn annoying how the combat works around citidels, POSs may have been boring, but they made sense more than citidels likely ever will. (I can’t believe I just said that, I never thought CCP could ■■■■ something up worse than POS’s with their replacement, and yet… they did.)
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Let me add, that I see the problem in having one mechanic fits all spaces logic, base lined by nullsec. Attack and defense is balanced for nullsec usage (mainly staging, hence final stand is important), and large professional (cap) fleets on both sides.
Highsec is a completely different beast. First, structures are not used for staging but service usage. Hence the armor timer is the most important timer not the hull (“final stand”). Also while defenders are small in size and amateurs (otherwise they would be in low or null), attackers are professionals (usually nullsec alts).
With having the shield/armor timers nerfed, and the crippled defense options, combined with the natural asymmetric warfare, the structure update may give balance to low/null/wh but is even more biased towards attackers in highsec, also entrenching the nullsec cartels’ service ownership.
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Echo many of the other comments.
I think an opportunity to bring variety for highsec defenders has been missed here by wiping the GTFO idea.
That would have also been fun to oppose as an attacker, in a non-TiDi situation. It’s scrapping is a lost opportunity for both sides.
Will be interesting to watch what happens to destruction of Upwell structures in highsec.
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Apparently only nullsec blocks are allowed to own structures in highsec.
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“Who cares about high sec folk” right? I guess thats their view on this issue.
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How about a Concord GTFO that only works in highsec?
To also give a solution proposal. Structures in highsec have to be a real force multiplier, in such a way that it levels the playing field for a small group vs. a large group with diminishing returns for medium, large groups. Like a buff to DPS, tank, speed, rep amounts, distributed across the defenders on grid based on a curve similar to incursion payout.
So the optimal fleet size to get the maximum buff would be 10 for an Astrahus for example. A single or two defenders would receive a small buff, and more than 10 would experience diminishing values.
Not sure if this works, but maybe this is also a mechanic which can make smaller fleets viable. On the attacker’s side a Titan could provide the same benefit if in lower sec.
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So, if I followed the Dev posts correctly, we are left with the following changes compared to Upwell 1.0:
- Structures always vulnerable
- Reinforcement Timer/Timezone information obtainable by attacker
- Every Structure Owner must be able to defend the Armor Timer 365 days a year on one day notice, lest all Services go offline.
- Unfueled Structures go straight into Hull
- Shorter Final Reinforcement Timer for everything non-Highsec.
- +15 Minutes for Hull Vulnerability
- Stronger Fighters for the Defender (not on Athanors or Raitarus)
- Nerf of Structure Scram. Limit of 1 per Structure and it works only every other minute for 30 seconds.
- AoE Burst Projectors, with the spoolup speed of a snail, the duration of a fart and effective area large enough to fit 3 frigates in (if they don’t slowboat out of it).
- Neuts via Void Bombs are replaced with Neut Burst Projector.
- Some T2 modules
Essentially everyone who currently owns a Raitaru or Athanor, should upgrade these asap to an Azbel or Tatara, otherwise they will only go away with the Nerfs of this change and receive none of the buffs to defenders. This is especially important for Moon Mining - outside of Highsec, Athanors are completely useless now.
Also, always keep your Structure fueled, no matter what.
Finally, never not log in for more than one day. If you do, make sure you have your computer start the EVE Launcher and login your Account automatically, or someone will notice that you’re not there to defend your Structure.
Structure bashing has become easier and faster, but apart from Wormholes it won’t net the Attackers juicy loot.
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This is clearly all for the attacker… why the hell do we even bother…
Attacker cries loud enough… we cant kill a keepstar because we overloaded a system to try and kill it… KeepStars have died in the past. get another way of doing it, you don’t need 6k people in a system to do it.
Attacker again crying about GTFO and the 5 minute fitting window… CCP wth are you playing at?! doubling the hull timer… do me a favour and just unanchor all my structures for me and take them at this rate.
Thanks for nothing.
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