First of all I agree, the time limit on the web and scram is useless and prevents a structure from defending it’s self.
Also next time change your sentence structure if your using a alt, doesn’t look as bad and it’s less obvious.
7 Likes
CCP Fozzie
Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m. This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition
Or to reship or call in more reinforcements and to just drag the fight out into another TZ.
As things are now, the 15 minute timer can last for several hours or more - It will last for as long as it is paused.
Even in full TIDI (which this newest change is bringing to just about every timer worth contesting – CCP really hates its players) the timer can be paused indefinitely.
Another nice change for large blob groups (defenders or attackers) while small groups are hit with another - CCP don’t give a crap about you change.
Why is it CCP finds it so hard “balancing” the game they design - Why is it all about “the bigger the group the more advantages you get”
This change brings the total possible time to 4 hrs 30 minutes you must have a fleet available to defend a final timer. We really are starting to move outside the “average time a player is online each day” - Or is it expected that everyone who plays the new “structures online” has no life.
I’m not sure the original intent of upwell structures was to change the game into something that required players to give up having a life outside Eve.
How about CCP do something really novel and stop listening to and designing the game around the blobs and talk to those trying to keep smaller groups viable in the game.
7 Likes
The problem is a fight in TIDI in relation to the repair timer. If the attacking fleet chooses to reposition and they lose damage to the structure for 90 sec or less at any point during the 5 hour fight that would be in 10% tidi the structure is magically repaired, this at least raises it to 3 min out of the 5 hour fight, wow what a compromise.
Umm, did you notice the part where they are making the ewar an on/off type of cycle with only one of each type of ewar fittable…not much you can do if you can only web or scram your target for 30 seconds every 2 minutes…plus the pathetic dmg of the citadel itself…That combined with the fact that the Citadel webs aren’t much better than the ship borne ones, (minus range of course) then its negated by the 1.5 minutes that it has to cool down…that extra 10% doesn’t help a whole lot when it is only active 1/4 of the time.
How? As a small gang Research-POS hunter we had to be very picky about which ones we could hit. If it had E-war or too many guns, we pretty much wrote it off if the owners were on atleast every other day. With the new structures…it really doesn’t matter if the owner is on if they are afraid of PVP, which encapsulates most small corps that put up their own citadel or EC to build from. Whereas the old POS’s…you could be afraid of PVP and still sit in safety as you tackled and killed the small gang that attacked your tower.
shrugs i don’t know, maybe i was doing it wrong…but i also had a large faction diike-star of slight death in HS and never once had a problem defending it with just me and my brother. Granted yes, if a major alliance had taken aim at it, there would have been nothing we could have done, but that is true with anything. The main point is that these changes make it even harder for a small non-pvp oriented group to defend against even equally small number of hardened PVP’s, as the Citadel’s abilities in HS don’t do jack squat to any attackers.
6 Likes
I think its more about “should or should not be?” some mechanic about ovnership of produced belts.
That should become a song. Title good for some minmatar rock band.
1 Like
Just curious here but wouldn’t trying to find ways to avoid “needing” TIDI be a better plan on CCP’s part?
Aside from that, I’ve sadly spent a lot of time in TIDI fights and not once has the whole attacking side moved at the same time. Most attacking fleets co-ordinate between each other, IE; FC 1 to FC 2, we want to reposition can you guys hold the timer while we get sorted. So sure if there is only one attacking fleet and they decide to move it will allow the timer to restart BUT if there is only one fleet on each side it is unlikely you will be in TIDI.
As for only adding 3 mins to a 5 hr fight… So what you’re saying is - Devs have added nothing to TIDI fights?
I’ve never seen a TIDI fight where you can reposition a fleet in 3 minutes, it takes that long to cycle your guns. Last one I was in siege cycles were lasting up to 45 minutes. 12 minutes to recall fighters that were orbiting my carrier.
My main concern with the extra 15 minutes is how it affects smaller groups defending or attacking a structure - They no longer have to hold out for 15 minutes + the 2 hours either side of the timer, it is now possibly 4 hrs 30 minutes they need to have a fleet online. That 4 hours 30 minutes is only roughly 2 hours more than the average player spends online each day. Take into account some players can only be available at certain times, smaller groups just got another kick in the butt from Devs.
CCP’s preferred meta - TIDI is good, bring more people to every engagement.
Just be aware that under the new fleet notification system, you may not get time to have a system reinforced before a fight.
2 Likes
For existing structures, if the owner does not designate a new vulnerability window before the change what will the default be? On Sisi it seems to be 18:00 Saturday.
One would presume that they would know when the timer is coming out. I mean all current structures including POS with their variable timer give the exact time it comes out, not a +/- 2 hours timer.
So I’d expect the workflow to go ‘Shields get reinforced, Server looks for timer, adds RNG element, then displays final timer exactly to all participants.’
So there is no 4 hours 30 minutes issue. They have to be able to cover their timer area sure. But an extra 15 minutes is very very very unlikely to affect if they can put a fleet online at their timer or not.
1 Like
You sure that’s how it will work or are you presuming?
The blog doesn’t make it very clear.
Even if you do know the timer + RNG can make quite a difference as to whether you can field a decent fleet or not, depending on where in the world you live and what your timers are set at, 2 hours either way can make a difference of "yes we can field a fleet or crap it is near midnight on a Tuesday and everyone has to work tomorrow. Add to that you’ll have a 30 minute timer to defend instead of 15 minutes - You’ll now be faced with having to have a fleet at the ready 2 hours 30 minutes past your chosen vulnerability time.
Sadly DT falls right in the middle of prime time in my TZ, so setting timers earlier or later isn’t really an option… (And it seems something CCP hasn’t taken into account)
Fortizar, 6 hours vulnerability PW… Set at 3 X 2 hour intervals / because CCP is adding 2 hours either side to your timer/ to ensure you have people online.
Timer is set for 1 hour before and one hour after DT. 1. RNG chooses 2 hours before DT as the time it comes out - You are likely to be short on fleet members due to, still coming home from work, being in the middle of dinner, putting kids to bed, etc.
2. + 1 hour of vulnerability after DT makes it 10 PM, then add 2 hours if RNG goes against you + a 30 minute timer. It’s midnight before the timer comes out, not ideal for many smaller groups who don’t have 24 hour coverage.
Just CCP not taking more into account than blob groups in their game design.
2 Likes
You, the defender, pick the day of the week that your “last stand” occurs (so don’t pick a Tuesday if it’s problematic). And you also pick the time, +/- 2 hours, when that “last stand” starts.
Yes, a 4-hour window may be problematic for a small Corp, even if it is centered on a day and time of their choosing. But not as bad as your (erroneous) calculations make it appear.
Except that the last timer is meaningless outside from a pure staging citadel. The only timer which matter is the armor timer as it shuts down the services of the structure.
1 Like
lol. it worked when when u anchored i1 pos in one moon . but think anchoring 50 citadel in one grid , specially in gate grid . which pppl are doing
Having never (yet!) been in that situation – what does it actually mean? Does service shutdown mean all industry gets cancelled (materials lost, BPOs returned), all market orders vanish, clones die? Or is everything merely paused and then either resumed or cancelled/lost depending on the last stand?
Stopped and locked in place until last stand. However the point is, that today, if the attacker loses the last fight, you can gain a week of uninterrupted operation. Now after the patch, the attacker just reinforces you structure the next day after the final timer when you asleep. He does not even have to ever show up to the last fight (on defender’s terms), and still can kick you out of business by just winning the armor timer again and again until you give up …
5 Likes
A real denial of service attack!
However, I thought from the flowchart that “successful last stand” put you back to “shield vulnerable” and, assuming you could be bothered to online a service module at that point, your services will have between (roughly) 20 and 40 hours uptime before the next shutdown.
At that point, all the defender has lost is time (and yes, time is money). Lose the last timer and you lose everything that isn’t covered by asset safety, including the structure itself – so how can the last timer be “meaningless”?
Meaningless is exaggerated sure, but it finally depends on the motives of the attacker. If the attacker just wants to shut you down, and ransom you, it’s enough to kill the shield and win the armor timer. Two days of operation out of 7 days of reinforcement in highsec is not much, and makes a structure useless for services.
1 Like
The tears and salt
(How can there not be salt emoji)
I agree, players said hey we’re getting screwed trying to kill a citadel in heavy TIDI. CCP makes some dumb excuse and tries to double hull repair timer to make them happy.
You pick your optimal time by 15 min. game gives you a timer +/- 2 hr from that exact time.