Yes, the 2% per level of strip miner duration was REMOVED - that is 12% nerf to yield
HOWEVER
barges got a 3% per level yield bonus for 15% BUFF
Exhumers got a 5% per level for a 25% BUFF
Trading duration for yield is always good
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Let me give you another perspective on this my fellow EvE friend,
A good portion of the gankers you cry about, the career ones and their relative bumpers…
They are alts on the same accounts as their miner and industrial characters, meaning they are Omega.
In the organizations, including the one I am part of, there is times someone wants to try out ganking in HS for the 1st time, such players are directed to start an Alpha account for this purpose, and we give them the recruit links to do so…because trying out something should not cost someone another sub in our(veterans) opinion.
Now you and others like you so far in this thread…take a pause and consider what i said about gank characters and industrials being on the same account(s). The organizations build their own ships and gear, or at least a great portion of it…whether that is T1 destroyers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Battleships, etc, and the fittings for them. And here is a secret that shouldnt be a secret to any capsuleer worth their salt… we build the same T1 barges we blow up for you to purchase over and over again.
My corp alone if we want to can build and arm 15,000 T2 cats per week…just dont have a need for that many, so we build a lot of other things to support our Alliance, not just our gank groups.
For those like you and your self, you should be asking yourself why you got blown up cause i think many other including @Sasha_Nemtsov might agree with me, it almost always your fault that you did.
here is some informational advice as well
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Yeah, but you can separate it into oxygen and hydrogen and compress those. Then re-combine later. Point is, make it smaller or compressible. But video game rules don’t need to match physics, they need to be fun and/or compelling.
Not myths, I see and hear about it all the time…
Even in my own organization, mining is relaxing or i just want to relax after work, or Im at work so im going to mine “mostly AFK” cause im at work,
Or the classic: I dont want to do anything but mine but im going to watch netflix or something and play AFK.
but they never want to be on voice comms, even once, they get butthurt when we tell them not to use the squishy mining ships, or better yet…when and if someone notices something in chat about them being ganked and we tell them to die quietly…cause we cant respond to chats easily, and especially when a warning is put out in those same chats before something happens but the person is AFK he/she does not see it.
I saw @Sasha_Nemtsov response some where to wanting better targets and players, I cant not dispute that, cause I as well want better EvE players like the days of old…and as far as CODE or Safety go…well tough love is the only way for some players to learn in this game.
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hmmmm, would just make more sense to make P1 compressible, or reworking so capital parts only take P4. On a side note plz CCP plz rework PI.
Entirely disagree with punishing people who have put time and effort into using T2 lasers and crystals with more wastage . People complained that new bros were being punished by the wastage mechanic as no one would want them to be mining moons/anomalies because of the excess waste , now no one will want to advance there characters further than T1 because of exactly the same reason . It frankly bewilders me
I also entirely disagree with adding PI too moons for a couple of reasons . Firstly it sets a bad president why do R4 moons gain this and R8+ don’t , surely all moons should be similar . Secondly PI should be kept as a separate market from mining as it has always been .
The idea is that the more experienced miners can opt for faster resource collection on renewables, like ore anoms etc, so they wind up getting more, faster, but they decimate the anoms faster, too.
Obviously, it’s not getting the reception they wanted, but that’s the idea behind it.
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OK I see that side of it but the main complaint about high newbro wastage was that on a Corp or alliance level wastage would be discouraged because of lost profits overall surely the same thing now applies to advancing further than T1.
Also surely it means that now they have removed a vast amount of wastage overall the doubling of all ores now means a lot more ore available meaning the overall value of ores is likely to tank
Yes, but as I understand it, the experienced miners have the choice: to take longer and get more ore from a single location, or to mine faster, but less efficiently, then find another spot to mine. The newbie isn’t forcing waste on them, and they have the option of choosing more ore per cycle, in case they don’t have a lot of time to spend mining.
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I’m not sure that will negate the social pressure not to waste valuable ore on a group level , though I agree if everyone were solo miners this would be more the case
So, here’s what I think would make more sense, overall:
Step 1: Setting
First, develop a complete picture of what resources you want players using. Then look at how those resources fit together. The bacteria thing here is a perfect example: bacteria need water. They need proteins and hydrocarbons in their environment. So you shouldn’t find them someplace where it makes no sense for them to be surviving.
The same sorts of things should apply to gasses, ice, minerals and moongoo. Figure out how to build them into the setting in ways that lend verisimilitude, rather than damaging it. Work out the whole framework of ‘where do you find what?’ ahead of time. Then start building that environment.
Step 2: Mechanics
Then you develop simple, streamlined game mechanics for each step of the resource cycle: simple ways to harvest. Simple ways to process. Simple ways to build. Simple ways to destroy. These simple ways should form the baseline for everything.
Next, add layers of complexity. But these layers need to be entirely optional. If someone wants to build with their brain turned off, great. Let 'em. They won’t be as efficient as they might be, they won’t be as profitable as they might be, or as fast, but they can do it with minimal actual player effort required.
OTOH, if they want to add in layers of complexity, they can get faster. They can get more efficient. All of which will improve profits. But here’s the thing: NONE of these additional layers of complexity can add tedium. None of it can add operational obstacles or roadblocks. Instead, it’s all in the preparation. Like fitting better modules and bringing better ammo, you build in ways to improve the tools / materials / facilities the character is using… but all of that improvement happens before you start using them—just like fitting a ship. Research on Blueprints was a good example of this.
Maybe you can add minor additional complexities to the act itself. They could be analogs to overheating your guns or using ancillary shield boosters. Even then, though, most of the work has to be something that gets done in advance, and then just waits for when you need it. At no point can any of the additional complexity be necessary.
So, for example, you could build a ship entirely out of the cheapest, baseline materials. And you get the normal, bottom-of-the-barrel version of that ship. Or you add in certain materials to get a version that’s tougher. Or less massive, and so, faster. Etc etc. Sure, economies of scale and strategic necessity will probably push the fleet meta to where it requires certain improved versions of the hull, but the baseline model would still sell. They’d be useful for those ‘let’s jam their guns with our corpses’ fights, as well as lower-income pilots, like newbies.
And, the variations available for each hull would add more potential complexity to the rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock of the metagame, and provide new ways to try to counter ‘dominant’ ships.
Mind you, I’m not saying ‘CCP totally needs to do it that way’, that’s just one possible off-the-cuff example of the principles I’m talking about.
Step 3: Sandbox
This part’s simple: Once you’ve got the setting, and the mechanics, get out of our way and let us blow one another up. None of the things you do in Steps 1 and 2 should be throttling our ability to throttle one another. If something you plan to do would discourage people being willing to throw their crap into a woodchipper, don’t do it. MMOs are always accretionary. People amass stuff. They amass wealth. Anything that keeps us from blowing up one anothers’ wealth is bad.
But, you know, that’s just what I think makes sense.
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Not completely, no. But when you’ve got a mining corp that can do 3 hours in belts on a Tuesday night, do they spend that 3 hours getting 100% of X from one belt, or do they spend it getting 66% of 2X from 3 belts?
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Should not wastage be a combination of both skill and equipment? Seems like they only take equipment into consideration and in a bad way. The better equipment you have the more you waste?
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You’d think so, but…
Well I was referring more to the more finite ore resources such as moons/anomalies as mentioned earlier , in belts its a little less of a problem obviously .
Still think I wouldn’t like to be the one who strips a moon/anomalie quickly and basically shafts my Corp mates for a third of the total that would be left if there were no wastage ie I’d prefer to mine a bit slower so more can go around , in other words not spend the time effort and expense advancing to T2 equipment .
Could be my lifestyle in Eve being a member of a moon mining Corp reliant on buyback to support its infrastructure that makes me more concerned about these things than some would be , I understand that . Still I suppose we will have to see how things pan out ingame after the changes hit .
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Especially not moons. After all, don’t have time for a full-length frack in one go? Set it up to frack every 2 weeks. 1/4 time needed. Anoms… eh. Generally there’s always anoms up, and if there aren’t, go to another system where there are. The only real worry on that is j-space, but day-tripping in your static with exhumers—no matter what someone said upthread—has a long and noble tradition.
And,to the inevitable cries of ‘what if you’re not allowed to move?’ I say: don’t be renters. Not only are you submitting to pointless restrictions, your hard work lets your landlords be lazy jackwagons. Make them work for their ISK, same as everyone else.
the ore hold on a hulk can not even take 2 full cycles when using t2. i think even faction barely fits.
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PI is in Moons now?
This is a joke, right?
Why not stick some random modules in there too?
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Nope., that depends entirely on the size of the changes. Numerator vs denominator, you know. In this particular case there are different origins for bonuses affecting the same parameter (amount per cycle), which makes it more challenging to calculate.
It really should be a simple question to people with access to all the numbers - you are the most likely person to have those numbers and are most interested and engaged in this mattter:
What will be the mining speed in m3/sec per strip miner on a Covetor fitted with tech II strip miners and tech II crystals and tech II mining upgrades, without any extras, with all relevant skills maxed out, before and after the change. And to avoid confusion, just show the fit used in the simulation.
If you don’t have access to those numbers or don’t have time to do the calculations, no problem. We may differ in opinion on the relevance of mining speed and yield per cycle, the crux is that m3/sec translates directly into isk/hr and to time spent on a job.