My advice:
JOIN A CORP
it will be very helpful to learn the basics, AND you will get some friends, objectives, enemies, aims etc
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I actually already am in a Corp, but it’s very social real life comes first type. So I’m getting the social aspect that really helps me to enjoy the game so much more than I have in previous attempts to play and without them I probably would have quit again already. Having said that, we’ve got people all over the world and some of the really knowledgeable folks (including our ceo) are significantly different TZ from me. But it’s an awesome Corp for social and teamwork at the lower levels. The other day they had a group of like 6 guys just to run a level 4, haha. So maybe not high-level play that others would scoff at, but they have fun, which is the key.
you are perfectly right!
i was used to doing escalations with 2-3 friends in t1 bs and share the loot, even if i could have run them solo in a blingy rattlesnake
what makes people stay in eve is the social component
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If he asked for a guide, I would have given him several newvie friendly guides, but instead I offered to guide him myself via Discord. I also gave him some perspectives that would not be made apparant for a newbie having merely read a guide on stuff like resist profiles, etc. There is no sin of omission or out-of-context or improper presumption here when what I offered from the beginning was an appetizer and the main course would have been 1-on-1
And Gila is suboptimal for L4s. Sufficient? Yes. Above average? Slightly. Top tier? Not even close. And yes, the damage lock is horrible. We’ve been missioning and for 11 years, I think we would know from botg extensive modeling in pyfa and field testing the extent to which damage type matters (one of the reasons we don’t use damage lock fits though there are other even more important entirely coincidental reasons)
USIA is not a corp, alliance, or coalition - no one has to change corps to join our community and be trained by us (though we also advise and train non-members)
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Then you’re doing it right. Just remember to sort activities based on how much you enjoy doing them, not on how much they make.
Pretty much any activity you can think of, and a large number you won’t think of, you can do in EVE and almost all of those you can make money with IF you put in the effort to git gud. So you might as well look for activities you enjoy doing regardless of what people tell you how much isk it makes, and then just choose to get good at it.
Missions for instance, if you don’t enjoy lvl 2 or 3 missions you won’t enjoy lvl 4 missions either. So if that is the case then planning to do missions long term “for isk” is probably going to result in you getting bored or annoyed with the game. If you DO enjoy them then keep doing them regardless of how much isk it makes.
Archer - I’m at work now so can’t do discord, but I might pop on tonight and see what its all about. In the meantime, why do you (or Cygnus or anyone else) think so many people seem to think the Gila is so great for level 4s? Is it just because they’ve blinged it out so much that just about ANYTHING could do level 4s with that much isk thrown into the fitting?
I do NOT think the Gila is great for L4s. It is slightly above average only in the sense that there are several ships that are bad for L4s and, therefore, the average is quote low. It has a lot of raw power and defense, but suffers heavily in maneuverability, range, precision, and time-to-impact (esp. regarding drone usage). The Gila is fantastic in higher end PVE where defense is actually required, or if you have fleetmates with webs/paints to conpensate for its low precision, but in low level PVE you can focus almost exclusively on offense for maximum throughput. The top tier hulls/fitting metas have orders of magnitude more throughput than the Gila with comparable costs and skill level requirements, and also have the capability of passive looting via Mobile Tractor Unit (which is impractical to do with the Gila)
It’s not good at all for lvl 4, it’s doable. That’s it.
Yeah to clarify, I didn’t think YOU guys thought it was good, but in googling the situation, I’ve read many posts and blog entries (I try to only read ones that or within a few years old as ships do get updated over time) touring the Gila as this pinnacle of all things pve. But maybe as you’ve both pointed out, it’s because it is a good ship in general and with enough bling it’ll do just fine.
As a matter of curiosity, to help me get the lay of the land, so to speak, what would you guys give as examples of “bad” ships to run level 4s in but you still see people do it all the time (or whatever), medium ranked and then more “elite” ranked?
In particular I wouldn’t mind where you’d put the rattlesnake in that list as it seems to be the natural next step in the Gila lineup.
You guys have been great, thanks so much!
Many players confuse “good” with “sufficient” or “easy to use”, and have a false sense of what top tier is. They think they reached the top when the top is in fact much higher. There is no shortage of guides and advice to be found in EVE, but very little of it is any good. I have seen major alliance use shitfits as part of their doctrine (still do - and they’re entering a major war!!!) Very frequently I see players fit ships in ways that fail to leverage their strengths or address their weaknesses, and worst of all many players fail to figure out how ships are “meant” to be fitted in terms reaching their true potential toward their intended roles and functions.
Be weary of advice that does not provide a comprehensive quantitative/qualitative analysis and comparison of alternatives. As you learn the art of fitting and simulation and modeling and comparative analysis, etc, you’ll better appreciate how many of these proudly advertised fits are in fact total garbage, or at least grossly inferior to comparable alternatives. I don’t publish our analyses on our website but it takes place on our Discord channel, for example.
Examples of low-throughput ships for L4s: Tempest, Scorpion, Maelstrom
What I stated earlier. It’s purpose built super OP zero effort lazy ass carebear machine. Objectively it’s WAY too powerful for a (pirate) cruiser in terms of dps and tank, I hate how CCP made it to be the perfect machine for any braindead zombie moron: everything is just aimed at requiring the least amount of possible effort. So allll the non-effort zombies LOVE this thing.
It’s good for many things if you enjoy being braindead but the one thing it’s NOT good at is level 4 missions. There are no cruisers that are GOOD at lvl 4 missions, it’s one of the few applications where a BS (preferably a funky one) is just outright better.
And very much that. Easy does not equal good. That and the “I didn’t die so it’s good” level of logic.
The lack of precision of the Gila means its actual damage is almost always substantially than its potential raw damage both from drones and even moreso from missiles. (I regularly go over the math and graphs with my crew sonthey learn these things.) This is the reason why Guristas ships are not OP: they will almosy never achieve their full potential or anything close to it (ie. actual dps will never be anything close to dps-on-paper) unless they are engaged against ships substabtially larger and slower than they are, or they have fleetmates to web/paint targets for them.
Furthermore, little to no effort should be expended in improving the precision of a Guristas ship: if you feel the need to boost precision, use a different hull entirely that is more precise.
I must admit that as a gamer who games for the purposes of relaxation, I probably trend more toward “easy to use” and “sufficient” is “good enough” for me 
At the same time, when I really do enjoy something as much as I have the potential to enjoy eve, I want to learn more about it. I’ve tried eve multiple times before and never got very far. In those cases it was because I never joined a Corp and so was missing a huge aspect of the game. Now that I’m in a Corp and really loving it, I feel like “easy to use” is fine, but it’s still a good thing to learn how things actually work. My next goal is to start learning more about the area on the map around me. I heard a Corp mate say that a few days ago a large battle went down in the FW space nearby. I want to learn what I can not just about FW, but about the groups that seem to be operating there. Maybe I can somehow fold them into my industry endeavors? Or perhaps FW will provide unique salvaging opportunities? I don’t know the answers to these questions right now, but I definitely want to broaden my experience in the game.
Thank you guys for helping me set up a foundation that will let me have fun while I’m doing that!
Just because you want or need to chill doesn’t mean you have to use a crutch like a ship that you can make work facerolling on the keyboard. Operating a normal missile or even a turret ship in missions isn’t somehow an amazing feat of 4D chess.
We’re talking idiocracy levels of dumb here, where if that person would be found on Mars the rover probably wouldn’t qualify it as life. Those are the people the ship is aimed at, doesn’t mean it has no use for “good” players, it surely does, but you could be drunken, high on meth and still do ok in that thing. This is why people like it.
There are still relatively high throughput passive/easy ships (that even outperform an active Gila), which is nice
Cygnus - I am just now starting to get the idea that you don’t like the Gila…
Nah…
Ok guys, it’s been a while, but this is the ship I’m skilling into. If memory serves, its pretty close to what I found on Archer’s website. What do you think? It’s got an insane lock range, cruise missiles out to 110km. It seems pretty clear that I can “range” tank it, not sure if that’s actually a thing. And while it has 70k ehp, it’s has no shield boosters or even extra resists… so please rip this apart and explain why it stinks or how it ought to be used. My knowledge is purely theoretical at this stage. Thanks!
[Raven Navy Issue, *Sand’s RNI]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II
500MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Missile Guidance Computer II
Cap Recharger II
Large Cap Battery II
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
‘Noose’ Cruise Missile Launcher
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5
Targeting Range Script x2
Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile x300
Missile Precision Script x4
Ob a good way.
- Launchers…you really want the arbalest Meta 4 launchers because price Change ist neglible but you have better Stars
- Cap battery…try IT out but MJD and MWD will only bei pulsed…i think you don’t have a Cap Problem Without a battery. Target painter, web, there Re better options.
- Damagecontrol get rid Off IT. Your Tank is range und running away.
Does anyone think the Gila is great for L4 missions? Really? Why would they? I don’t understand…
The Gila is a great PvE ship for its class, i.e. for PvE content that has ship restrictions not allowing it to be done with a T3 cruiser or a battleship.
The Gila is a comparatively inefficient choice for L4 missions for the simple reason that those missions can be done with battleships having a MUCH higher DPS (and still good damage application if fitted and flown properly) than it’s possible to achieve with a Gila, which allows the type of NPCs you have to deal with there to be killed MUCH faster than it’s possible with a Gila. Simple as that.
Does that mean you should fly a battleship instead of your Gila to do L4 missions now ? Depends. If your goal is efficiency and your skills do already allow you to do those missions more efficiently with some battleship, then you may want to do them with that. Otherwise, you may want to keep flying a Gila while you train those skills…