Grumble Grumble, P2W, Capital Skill Books, Grumble Grumble

[Shipwreck_Jones]

Players rightfully got upset when CCP first started selling SP directly to players. Not only was it a step in the direction of P2W, but they asserted that CCP had broken a promise. Now, to be fair, CCP didn’t actually promise to never sell SP directly to players (see below image), but what they said did help alleviate concerns about injectors. Thus, I can see why players took it as an implied promise. Moreover, they said it was important that all SP originated from players training at the normal rate. So, is that no longer the case, or has their desire for money overridden other concerns?

Anyway, players threw a ship fit, and CCP said, “we heard you.” Their response, however, amounted to little more than a token effort to placate us. They changed the +3 accelerator so that it could only be used on characters under 35 days… and then kept on selling the 1 million SP. After that, they made another batch of DLC’s selling SP. And then another. Which brings us up to today, where we get a DLC that includes capital skillbooks. Needless, to say, I find this disconcerting.

Now, some people might say, “what’s the difference?” You can just buy plex, and use that to buy the skill books. Well, for one, this diminishes the isk sink of buying skill books, but more importantly, it’s a step in the direction of P2W -which I believe we need push back against. CCP might not be as evil as the likes of EA or whatnot, but the video game industry is filled with companies that keep trying to innovate in the areas of P2W and anti-consumer practices. And the only things that help reign in their more egregious schemes are player pushback and lost revenue.

So, this is my pushback.

• I am not okay with CCP generating SP out of thin air in order to sell it directly to the players.
• I am not okay with CCP selling Skill Books directly to players.
• I am mostly not okay with CCP selling anything to players that affects game balance.
• The only reason I accept plex is because (A) it has other benefits (such as wealth storage and allowing people to use isk to buy omega time and skins), and (B) because the single biggest factor in determining outcomes is still player skill. And I want to keep it that way.

I am not freaking out yet, but I am growing concerned. I don’t want to see CCP keep taking baby steps in the P2W department. First it was Plex, then SP, now skill books. What’s next, Gilas? Gold Ammo? Straight up loot boxes? I’d like to think CCP would never go there, but I can’t rule out that possibility.

[Xeux]

Quantum cores are next.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Shipwreck_Jones

P2W

how so?

Edit: Before that, what is even your definition of “P2W”?

[MB_ThePhotographer]

I didn’t bother to look it up, shame on me. But would limiting skill injectors to sub caps help?

[Xeux]

I don’t want the skill book. I want to buy the skill already trained to level 5.

[Evei_Shard]

As I said in another thread, the issue is that the most popular business model for games right now, the one that investors want the most due to short term returns, is the f2p cash shop loot-box-a-palooza.

Eve Online is an old game with a somewhat loyal core of players who have an appreciation for things that are not popular with “them kids today”. Such as having an attention span measurably longer than a Planck second, or finding enjoyment in being given a game that is so vast that it can take years to fully get into it.

The investors have determined that they make the most money in the short term by putting their money into companies that are playing in the gray area of gambling, and by cranking out theme park games which appeal to people who appear to have not matured past the age of 4.

The companies that run these games do not care about the players, or the players opinions. They care about the bottom line. In the case of Pearl Abyss, having bought CCP, the people at the top are only concerned with the profits and how to maximize them.

Their primary goal is to replace the dedicated player base with mindless loot-box buying participation trophy players who are easily manipulated by new shiny features which will drive them to the cash shop. Most importantly, they won’t kick back.

Is Eve dead? No. The objective is not to kill Eve. The objective is to completely replace the original playerbase by slowly driving them away while bringing in the people who will drop money on a new skin at the end of a bad financial quarter so they make their numbers.

This is also why in most games over-nerfing and over-buffing is a myth. It is deliberate. The min-maxers are a financial driver for a company, and the companies have learned that if they change the meta once very half year or so, the min-maxers won’t bat an eye to trash their old gear and buy new, which is always neatly timed to happen after a phase in which most of those players will spend their in game money on something shiny, thus putting them into the position of needing in game money for new gear and oh look, a cash shop sale on in game currency!

Where the players of Eve Online are currently is a point of trying to determine just how much of this poison CCP has had injected into their system by Pearl Abyss (and did they willingly take it?)

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@Evei_Shard

The objective is to completely replace the original playerbase

Slowly, but surely, they seem to be accomplishing their goal.

[Shipwreck_Jones]

Technically, anything that would allow players to purchase an in-game advantage for cash could be construed as P2W, but I wouldn’t demonize everything that falls under this definition. For example, Omegas get a considerable advantage over Alphas, but Omega status wasn’t conceived of in order to squeeze more money out of players who were trying to remain competitive. Instead, alpha status was introduced as a way to attract more players to the game (and, imho, it’s consumer friendly). Moreover the presence of P2W elements doesn’t make the game itself P2W. For example, I wouldn’t consider Eve to be P2W as long as the single biggest factor for determining outcomes remains player skill (and not how much cash you drop).

That being said, I don’t particularly care for more and more ways for players to accumulate in-game advantages by dropping more and more real life cash -especially, when those methods have no other advantages (i.e. Plex) and possibly have other repercussions (i.e. reduce the efficacy of isk sinks). I understand that CCP is a business, and that they need to make money to keep the lights on. However, I would prefer it if they found ways to increase profits that weren’t P2W or anti-consumer. For example, I am perfectly fine with them monetizing player expression (skins, avatar items, character resculpt certificates, character rename certificates, etcetera). And, of course, in an ideal world, they’d make more money by making a better game that more people wanted to play.

[Jayce_Fitzpatrick]

@Evei_Shard

Their primary goal is to replace the dedicated player base with mindless loot-box buying participation trophy players who are easily manipulated by new shiny features which will drive them to the cash shop. Most importantly, they won’t kick back.

Why not profit off mindless drones willing to throw cash at CCP?

If you don’t support this, then it’s time to find another game with a business model that better suits your own values.

[Shipwreck_Jones]

@Jayce_Fitzpatrick

If you don’t support this, then it’s time to find another game with a business model that better suits your own values.

Well, I’m hoping that things don’t come to that. I don’t particularly like it when the games and series that I enjoy have their core experiences compromised in order to increase profitability. Of course, I’ll vote with my wallet if I have to, but I’d much rather the games and series that I play remain enjoyable to me.

[Jayce_Fitzpatrick]

I think many would love the game to remain enjoyable for them, however it seems like there are many interpretations of what “enjoyable” is.

[Tolkenmoon]

CCP no longer own the game they are just doing what makes them more money for their owners.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

eve is so old that is suffering for a generation conflict
like real life
its awesome as a social experiment
it suck do old farts like us because is hard to listen to ideas like “consent pvp” in eve online

@Tolkenmoon

CCP no longer own the game

and yes CCP was sold
i think the new overlords are doing a good job besides the terrible invasion new content

[Wadiest_Yong]

A temporary offer of a (set of) skill book(s), on the very high end of the scale of training, for $$$, is worthy of scrutiny
Unless there is a shortage of skill books on the market I wouldn’t worry about it. However, as they also control the npc sell orders for those books, I would scream bloody murder with good reason if something happened with those, or in the case of very rare skill books (booster related, trig related, etc).

With the “drole de guerre” going on in Delve etc, maybe they thought it was a good opportunity to try to cash in on a bit of that fun, with many newer pilots maybe planning to finally get into one of those shiny big ships. Marketing boys always lick their lips. More inexperienced carriers on grid means more destruction - which could mean faster end of the “shortage period” hurrah (also heavily advocated by a marketing boy, btw). So, might be a clever trolling attempt for $$$, since proliferation of those ships is usually called “bad for the game”.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Shipwreck_Jones

purchase an in-game advantage for cash could be construed as P2W

How does buying some Skillbooks connect to an “in-game advantage”?

@Shipwreck_Jones

I don’t particularly care for more and more ways for players to accumulate in-game advantages by dropping more and more real life cash -

…again, how does buying a skillbook give players an “in-game advantage”?

And why does this specifically trigger you so much when players have always been able to buy PLEX, sell it on the market, and use the ISK to fund their purchase of skillbooks also off the market?

[tutucox_Khamsi]

the new guys want to buy their way into a titan or battleship to start doing “nice things in the game”
they will all quit
nothing will be lost , don’t bother
BTW EVE is not pay to win
the topics serious EVE payers should really think are
self-determination and sandbox

[Xeux]

Except that RMT’ing your way into a Titan actually makes these guys more likely to quit.

You are supposed to lose ships you can afford to lose so that you figure out that it is fun.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

yes , the quantity of skills injectors you buy in the first months you play is directly proportional to the likely you have to quit

[Wadiest_Yong]

Very good point, that’s indeed very likely. No patience and no insight = no EvE. And if they ever want to keep those people in the game, they would have to make an entirely new game.

If that was indeed measured by ccp (injectors vs. active account duration), the data are probably locked away in a deep, dark vault, lol.

[Radical_Posture]

Why would anyone spend 49.99 for some skillbooks that you could buy for 500 plex 19.99?
And have 600 million left over after buying the books from the seeded NPC market.
You could buy these books even lower if you even tried.
I just don’t see the value here.
Unless you think those skins are worth 250 plex.