A few things that don’t seem to be mentioned often in regard to this topic:
How much do you enjoy acquiring minerals and are you willing to support your competition?
Competition:
I can purchase ships from other players, however, as an industrialist, these players are my competitors. I can also purchase the minerals required to build my own ships. However, those who mined and reprocessed the ore are my competitors as well.
Enjoyment:
If you enjoy mining, you might not consider the time you spent doing so to be a loss of valuable time. As an analogy, consider gardening. If you enjoy growing your own vegetables rather than purchasing them from someone else, are they free? If you are miserable while gardening and do so only as means to an end, then perhaps they are not free. If, however, you enjoy gardening and have not spent any form of currency to obtain your vegetables, you might consider them to be free.
". . . There are two ways to wash the dishes. The first is to wash the dishes in order to have clean dishes and the second is to wash the dishes in order to wash the dishes. . . . "
-Thich Nhat Hanh
This quote by zen master Thich Nhat Hanh can be applied to any activity one might consider to be a means to an end. Any activity one could argue to cost you time as though time is a form of currency. Here is my adaptation in regard to mining in EvE:
“There are two ways to obtain minerals. The first is to obtain minerals in order to build ships and the second is to obtain minerals in order to obtain minerals.”
Is it invalid? Gathering means to collect things, not specifically mine them. By buying them, you are gathering them, just not through the activity of mining the ore and refining it.
But since, at least currently, it is thought that the amount of energy in the universe is a constant that can be neither created nor destroyed, can it not be said that everything is free?
Any energy you expend is already extant, and just involves applying energy that is already there.
well if youre counting time consumed as a cost then does that mean i can sue any company giving me anything for free
like even online has free expansions
but hang on ive had to pay for a sub
plus i need an internet connection
and uses bandwidth
and my personal time waiting to download
so the expansions are falsely advertised we should all sue ccp right
i mean we deserve compensation for this so called free content
The expansion is available to alpha only so you don’t HAVE to pay a sub. On top of that, you already got all you paid for because your sub only entitle you to an active omega account. Nothing more is included in the sub price.
CCP is not charging you for that so you can’t attribute the cost to the expansion which is provided by CCP.
Your bandwidth cost are not on CCP.
This could count as opportunity cost if you could generate wealth in other way prevented by the download but beside in-game gains because you can’t connect while the game update, it’s a though sell to bring to court.
That doesn’t change the definition of words. The mining still cost you time, thus it is not free. However, in this case, the exchange isn’t Time → Minerals. It’s Time → Minerals + Enjoyment. Changing the perceived value of the exchange does not change that there was something given up. Consider, there are lots of free things in the world that might have a negative value, things that you might get for free and then pay someone to take away.
Assuming all your arguments aren’t drivel, there’s always the other definition of the word “free.” As in “available to everyone.” As in “free speech.” Or “weapons free.”
This was the point of the op. You get it but don’t win, as others have said the same thing.
He expected proof.
I believe many of us provided proof.
By expending effort this thread cost us all something.
However, as devils advocate, I re read the op and while he’s a bit cryptic, I was wrong to automatically assume he believed minerals ARE free, and argue accordingly, when he really wanted proof as to how and why they are free- not speaking for the op or quoting him exactly but he PM’d me and that was the gist.
I personally wish he would have ended his own thread but I quite enjoyed thinking why minerals are not free, so nm.
So yeh, thread was effort nothings free, and you don’t always get what you pay for (eg. a bloody response and 1bil for someone).
But I do get the point.
Edit: Was in game mail not PM.
Also I think this was a worthwile exercise even though OP is a bit of a tease. V NAUGHTY
This post feels like a troll.
I’ve seen some good points above that are being denied, which is confusing me.
I know this is in a game, but in reality we get payed to work. We spend our time working at the job, doing the task that we are assigned to and at the end we get payed (hopefully). simple. If people are going to spend their time in eve to produce minerals for others or themselves (mainly others) to use, then why should they give it out for free?
You do work (even if by choice), you get payed. Seems pretty simple to me.
