Yup, and that misses the point because it was a generic example. The problem with generalist ships in Eve is that if you’re pretty good at a lot of things synergies can make you better than a ship that’s actually supposed to be focused in that one thing. That’s why the T3Cs and to a lesser extent the T3Ds were both so oppressive in the meta for so long.
Now these ships can be balanced, but it’s a pretty thin line and that’s takes a lot of CCP’s time that would be better spent on other things.
It also gets even harder when you’re trying to insert something like that into an already crowded meta space, which the small ship meta absolutely is, that’s the main reason AFs aren’t used much as it is outside of PvE (the PvE fact coming courtesy of Fozzie at the last Fanfest balance panel).
What you’re likely to get if you try to make a T3F is something that either doesn’t really have a purpose, it’s not particularly better than anything else like the AFs already are, or it’s massively OP in some way and causes problems. T3-ification is an overly complicated and messy solution and therefore a bad one.
Yes, you did! You said they would go from speed range X-Y to P-Q. X-Y was 1500-1800, which is faster than any AF reasonably goes already without a very speed focused fit and overheating, and the vast majority go much slower than even 1500.
You keep using the word selective a lot here and you’re just abusing the poor thing. There’s nothing selective about what I’m saying here.
All ships have to deal with webs and neuts and the various ships that use them. Speed is balanced around their existence. If anything these make an AB more OP, because on the vast majority of ships web range is fairly close to scram range, so a webbed ship with a bonused AB can maneuver more easily to shut off his opponent’s MWD and escape with his superior speed.
Similarly neuts have a much lower impact on an AB since they use less cap overall and have no cap penalty, making this a further reason speed bonused ABs are stupidly powerful.
Given all of this the fact that the Succubus sees so little use should be an indication of how strong of a bonus a ship would have to get to AB speed for it to actually see use.
Your “proposed speeds” don’t change the basic math here. The tank bonus provided would be ridiculous. I didn’t even use anything you said in my statement, I gave a general range of speeds where ABs are sane for tanking, and a range where they’re usable as a MWD replacement, and at no point do the two overlap.
Also an AB fitted ship maintains more of his max speed in a tight orbit because of the substantially lower mass penalty.
First off, the main place AFs are going to be used is fighting other small ships, and the vast majority of total use cases in the game, by ship usage, is fighting something between Frigate and Cruiser size. Cruisers don’t matter much here because anyone fighting Frigates in a Cruiser is going to be outmaneuvered anyway so the only thing that matters to that engagement here is the tank potential, which as I’ve already gone over is ridiculous for a massively speed boosted AB.
This means that the majority of engagements where this has any relevance at all are fights vs Frigates and Destroyers, where the aforementioned head-on pass situation is going to show up in a large percentage of your engagements where the enemy doesn’t straight up flee.
Second, it’s absolutely a question of ship balance because different ships react differently in the above situation. Realistically an AB ship actually has an advantage because of the lower mass and faster turning.
Thirdly, and I should have stated this in the post you quoted, that was meant as an illustrative example, I just apparently thought that the point it was illustrating could be left unsaid. Basically you’re still relying on a specific scenario for your use-case to be relevant, namely that the opponent is aligning the wrong way to start with.
So again, if your ship requires your opponent to make an error to be usable then it’s not balanced.
It does, because it assumes that the Frigate has a reason to get into Scram (and therefore web) range in the first place. You’re inventing a case where a MWD fitted AF is already perfectly fine and has no reason to close distance to Scram range.
Expecting any kind of reply here from CCP is pretty ridiculous honestly, but my point was that you seem to be denying some pretty basic logic and math in your attempts to justify the potential existence of this bonus.
As far as knowledge and ad-hominem goes I’m personally trying my best to avoid it as well, but there’s simply no other way to bring up that you seem to be speaking not from personal or even second hand experience with these hulls but from a position of pure theory with no basis in reality.
You certainly don’t seem to understand the tracking formula or how a MWD tanks vs an AB or you’d know how utterly ridiculous an AB with anything close to the speed of an MWD is. If you were active in the small ship meta at all, or had even followed it for the last 2-3 years, you’d know how important raw speed is and why an AB with half the speed of a MWD just isn’t gonna cut it.
To spell it out briefly:
If you’re spending twice the time at long range you take way too much damage, even with AB sig, while closing distance to be effective as tackle. Heavy or otherwise. The MWD is just better here.
If you’re doing small gang or solo small ship combat then the MWD is needed to close in and pin down targets. Since basically everyone else is going to be using a MWD you need to be able to match that sort of speed. Relying on your opponent screwing up is a recipe for a lot of lost AFs or missed kills, and you’d be purely better off in the more expensive T3Ds.
If you buff an AB on these ships so that it’s fast enough to compete with a MWD then the resulting tank and general performance mean that you need to either cut the ship off at the knees in almost every other way to balance it, because you now have an incredibly tanky, scram-immune, more cap efficient, more maneuverable MWD-speed ship.
The Succubus gives us a pretty good idea of where CCP feels a bonus like this can rest without being inherently OP. That frigate has a 100% bonus to the AB’s velocity bonus, which means a T2 AB has a 270% velocity bonus, just over half of the 500% a T2 MWD offers, or under half the total velocity (roughly) on the final ship.
Oh and as for your ‘inconsistencies’ they’ve either been statement errors or things that I’ve then responded to. If you still feel there are any outstanding please point them out specifically and I’ll respond to them.