Kill-a-Bounty-Right (A proposal to alter and combine bounties and killrights)

I think I should also add while I remember, that the “bad guy” system is not totally fleshed out, as there are a lot of concepts and theories in my head, and didn’t have the time or the words to jot them all down.

One theory is that there is likely no algorithm that can account for ‘gaming the system’ when it comes to trying to create a bounty system that releases full payout upon successful hunt, given the current game design and its limitations. My thoughts were to then create a system where there is a human element to determine the authenticity of the “hit”, placing that responsibility on the bounty creator. And I figured a system that can payout in full may be more motivating for the darker side of the community.

This may also lend well to EVE’s style, creating further possible betrayals and score settling. And also, as mentioned, a possible “broker” playstyle, trading trust and footwork in exchange for a cut of the full bounty. However, if this game mechanic goes too far, or may be easily abused, then hopefully someone can come up with something better. However, any “bad guy” bounty system should, in theory, be separate from a lawful bounty system.

So… Kill rights on the guys who are normally -10. The ability to screw someone for life for simply going suspect. Oh and most places there is no such thing as a legal bounty on someone even if they do something criminal.
And harder to use bounties for ‘bad’ guys… .

Yeah… I’m not seeing the point to this especially since it’s still going to be as bad a pay out.

Not sure what you mean here. If a person is -10, aren’t their crimes more than just going suspect?

Also, the bounty system I think may be more for players that don’t care that they are being hunted, they want the content. :upside_down_face:

Don’t quite understand this one either. This is a game, much like a tv show, it requires “suspension of disbelief”. Think “Cowboy Bebop” where bounty hunting is a thing and legal.

Yeah for me if it comes down to isk, if someone is continuously targeting me I want to put such a hurting on them for coming after. The greater the reward the greater there will be people who will hunt them down. For me if that is limited to a cap, then people will choose who ever they want with no incentive to target the higher bounty. If no one is incentivized then, it will likely put a damper on the bounty hunters total value system.

Except in a blind system, people get targets like contracts and have no idea who they are after. The option of choice needs to be removed as then the system can’t be farmed.

Except then they have no choice who to hunt and end up stuck hunting unsuitable targets instead. So…
Blind systems don’t work either.

It would be just like mission running…a new player doesn’t qualify for harder mission levels. As long as the level and target profiles were close, no problem there either.

I have to agree here, blind systems would end up demotivating hunters. The devs would have to miraculously come up with some sort of algorithm that accounts for concurrent play times for hunter and criminal for matchups, good luck with that. Not to mention that once clever criminals deduce the algorithm, they can game it by changing up their play times and/or alternating their alts.

In general tho, theory crafting a new bounty system in these forums is nearly futile in that it’s basically an entire game feature that would take a team of devs weeks, if not months, in face to face conferences, drawing up brainstorming diagrams and such. I still think it’s a worthwhile effort, but as a forum community I think I’m now resigned to the fact the the best contribution that can be done here is to suggest what doesn’t work and perhaps minimum requirements.

I think @Bronson_Hughes made some great points in his OP. I posted my own theoretical bounty system here, instead of my own thread, for the main reason that it shared a lot of similarities with the OP’s, however I left it unfinished due to lack of time, and the realization that no single person can develop such a system, it’s too big an idea. But again, I totally agree with the OP that the minimum that a new system should do is:

  • Zero out the old bounties. It doesn’t make sense that a bounty system sanctioned by the law should be sweeping up law abiding citizens that have never committed a crime.
  • Bounties should only be able to be placed under certain conditions, likely namely during a suspect and criminal timers.
  • And I think this was implied, but bounty hunting should be “on sighting” activation mechanic. I just don’t think blind systems would work.

And these are just my theories:

  • A game mechanic should account for that criminals should be allotted a set amount of time for relief from bounty hunting in order to be able to commit more crimes. Criminals should have some respite to be able to do their jobs, or there may not be enough criminals to bounty hunt for.
  • My own feeling is, additionally, a separate bounty system needs to split from the “lawful” system, as criminals should have their own way to bounty lawful players. I believe that was the intent of the original bounty system, was that anybody would be able to place a “hit” on anyone else, lawful or not.

CCP has 100% of the data of when players are active (vs just logged in). They just need to build a profile based on time and days and put that against locations. It’s really not that hard.

And I can’t stress this enough; bounty hunting is NOT an easy job that is not meant for the easily discouraged instant gratification types. These would be elite, patient players that gravitate to solo PvP gameplay and are not afraid to go anywhere (at higher mission levels).

Attempting to keep this brief, I can’t think of another content within EVE that uses algorithms based on player metrics, so there is just no evidence that a blind bounty system could work. Not to mention throwing in alts, jump cloning games, switching up play times, etc… we could go back and forth on examples and counter-examples of how it would and wouldn’t work, but in the end, I think that would just prove the point that humans are too complex for an algorithm to work. And the criminal crowd have proven time and again that they are too clever to be contained by weak game mechanics. So for this, I would have to respectfully agree to disagree with you at this time.

I agree here 100%. Even if a balanced bounty system were to somehow materialize, I think bounty hunters would eventually be disadvantaged in at least one way. While criminals will at times use disposable alts, bounty hunters will likely need dedicated skilled characters, and they may likely be challenged just by their name recognition alone. Not to mention, traps, and counter-traps, and counter-counter-traps… sounds vicious, but perhaps high potential for some great stories. :sunglasses:

Hey no problem and I totally appreciate the dialogue. If I want to boast that “my system is the best” then I need to be able to mostly back that up.

The formula would be something like:
All toons not active in the last 7 days would be excluded from the query. If a toon became again after the 7 days it would be put back into the pool of valid targets.

Q: In the last 30 days of activity what is the average security level of the systems the criminal has been in per day?

Q: What is the closest 4hr block of time that would match the criminal. There would be 24 blocks obviously starting with 00:00 to 4:00. The next block would be 1:00 to 5:00. and so on.

Q: What is the total value of the bounty. This is a combination of Concorde and victim funds.

So the Bounty Hunter would select the level of mission he/she wanted…of course limited by skill and/or relations.

The first target elimination from the list of potential targets would be contract value. A Level I mission might only go to 25M. A Level II to 100M and a Level III to 500M. Sp If you can only go for Level II missions, any targets above 100M are culled.

As it’s Level II, the location factor would be pretty safe and range from an average of 6 to 3…this would represent a target that spent most of its time in HS but spends time in LS. Anything out of that range would be ignored.

Lastly (or maybe this would be firstly) is the play time limit. A Hunter would be asked for their preferred time period and would get a target (if available) within that block +/- 2 hours. So if you were block 5, 5:00 to 9:00 then the target’s average would be somewhere in the 3:00 to 11:00 range. The higher the mission level, the larger that +/- is though.

So really it’s not that complicated…yes when you write it all down it’s a bit of a wall but this is simple filtering really.

…and that is EXACTLY what should happen. If you are going after a Level IV mission target worth 1B, it should not be easy and you should expect shenanigans. A good hunter will use scouts and their own tricks though…

How can you use scouts if you don’t know who the target is. Either you can’t hunt them effectively or you can farm your own bounties.

The hunter knows who the target is…

You can’t farm yourself as you can’t pick who to hunt…

So you draw contracts till you get the right one.
It’s still farmable.

You don’t draw contracts, you buy them…or better said, pay the Concorde fee to hunt somebody for a set period of time (just like buying a licence IRL). Number of open contracts are limited by skill level and quitting a job early damages yuor ratings severely (to prevent exactly what you are suggesting).

Not farmable…

Then it’s useless. Because people will burn so much isk trying to hunt they’ll never make it back.
The current bounty system is the best balance there can be unless game mechanics such as alts get removed or massively changed.
Trying to force it to match your idea of a legal bounty service will evaporate nearly every bounty, leaving Perm -10 players who you can shoot now anyway.

How ?

If you have to buy a bounty… Like you literally just posted.

I said pay a fee for a licence. I’d guess 10% of the total bounty’s worth. So a 500M target would cost you 50M for a licence that would be limited to, oh say 2 weeks for this level…

So where is the “burn so much” bit?