Kill-a-Bounty-Right (A proposal to alter and combine bounties and killrights)

After partaking in a few discussions on the topic, I have a proposal to rework how bounties and killrights work, making them a more unified system. This would involve several steps:

  1. Zero out all current bounties on all players and corporations. Yes, this seems rather an abrupt place to start, but stay with me.

  2. Bounties could only be placed on players or corporations under limited circumstances. If a corporation declares an aggressive war against you, your corporation would be entitled to place a bounty on your aggressor. If a player commits an “aggressive” act against another player, (i.e. anything that would flag you in Empire space) the aggressed player would be entitled to place a bounty on the aggressing player. If one of these conditions did not apply, you could not place a bounty on another player or corp. (I’m open to other conditions as this does seem rather limited, but it was the best place to start.)

  3. The amount that you can add to the bounty pool for a given offense would be fixed. 1 million ISK per incident for players, 10 million ISK for corporations.

  4. Bounty payouts would work exactly the same as they do now: upon the destruction of a ship or asset with a bounty on it, a portion of the bounty based on the value of the ship or asset destroyed is paid out.

  5. Once a bounty on a player reached a high enough level (100 million ISK), that player would automatically receive a killright, able to be activated by anyone, for free. In exchange, 20 million ISK would be removed from the player’s bounty pool.

  6. Once a bounty on a corporation reached a high enough level (1 billion ISK), another war-eligible corporation could remove 200 million ISK from the bounty pool in exchange for one week of free war against the corporation with the bounty.

See why I had to start out with zeroing out all existing bounties? It doesn’t seem quite right for someone with a billion ISK in bounties on their head from friends and/or scamming partners to suddenly earn the equivalent of thousands of free kill rights.

The specific ISK amounts I listed are open for discussion, and are included mainly for a sense of scale; whatever numbers get used for individuals, the numbers for corps should be an order of magnitude or so greater. (I chose them mainly because 20 million ISK is about the limit of what I’l pay to activate a killright, and 200 million ISK is in the same ballpark of the new 100 million ISK wardec fee.)

This would accomplish a few things:

A) Bounties would actually be representative of hostile activity, not just random player shenanigans. Kind of like your sec status, but harder to repair.

B) Bounties could be converted into action by reducing the bounty pool in order to trigger a killright or war instead of just being a random payout.

C) Killright scams would still be possible, but you’d need to keep your bounty below a certain level. (I’m not a fan personally, but I also don’t want to squash emergent behavior.)

What this would not fix is the server load caused by divvying up bounties hundreds of different ways every time a player with a bounty dies in a large fleet fight. I’m open to suggestions on that front.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Flames?


Alt farmable…try again :slight_smile:

I think you missed a part:

It wouldn’t be any more farmable than it is now, because the bounty payout would still be capped by the value of the ship destroyed. And since that “free” activation knocks 20 million off of the bounty pool, it’s even less susceptible to farming.

So why bother changing it, other than to get free kill rights on the guys who wardecced you.

Ok not farm-able but game-able.

At 101M, I’d just get an alt to kill me enough to drop back bellow 100M rendering that mechanic null and be safe to fly around without fear.

Also, what exactly is being gained by this proposal if most of it is the same as we have now (which is useless)? I mean, if I lose a frigate why is that the same 1M limit as if I lose a 1B ship/pod?

Also, free war? I mean, you’re opening corps up to losing stations over bounties now…doesn’t that seem a wee bit stifling to you?

A bounty system should not have the effect of preventing people from doing bad things but rather reward people for killing those evil do’ers later…just like IRL.

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Have you seen the number of “Bounties are useless, fix them!” threads? It seems that there’s a general dissatisfaction with how bounties work, so I figured I’d propose something that gives them more meaning to see if people were interested.

You raise some very good points.

On being alt-gamable: you’re exactly right. I hadn’t considered that. I have no immediate response to that, and that may very well tank the whole proposal.

On 1M frig vs 1B pod: the whole idea is based on the idea of establishing a history of aggressive behavior, not just a certain ISK value destroyed.

On free wars: the only corporations that would be eligible for the “free” wardec are ones already engaging in multiple aggressive wars. Their stations will have been at risk long before another corp uses this mechanics to wardec them. The only difference would be that now they’d be at risk from any corp, not just ones that they’re attacking. Is this “a wee bit stifling”? Possibly, but that wasn’t my intent; I’m looking to crate more content, not less.

Let me roll your points around a bit. Thanks for your feedback.

I would suggest that a punishment for lack of a better word needs to always fit the crime. Letting players interact with the process is great but then limiting it that same process really would be annoying especially if emotions were high.

Ya this really started to make things weird as a spy could really damage a corp by doing illegal things and landing that corp in hot water…very gameable…

Hey NP…I disagree with your points but love the attempt and totally support that too so…

I really think you need to think out side the box on this as the whole system is borked ATM…BTW I 100% agree with your #1 :slight_smile:

The current system is working as intended.

It’s just not intended to do anything remotely useful.

Either way, I agree that it’s borked. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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To me until someone comes up with a system that is not alt “gameable” there is no point in making any changes.

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Yeah, anything that can be gamed for profit is a definite no-go, and gaming to reduce negative impact leaves me wondering why it should even happen.

As @Runa_Yamaguchi pointed out above, the latter applies to my proposal, so I’m seriously rethinking it.

This was my suggestion a year ago and nobody put a dent in it for gaming the system.

Sadly, CCP was to busy with theme-park crap to bother to stop-by…

I’ve been theory crafting a very similar system, and I agree, the current bounties would have to be thrown out. It doesn’t make sense if bounties are authorized by CONCORD or whatever, that they would allow collection on law abiding citizens that have never committed a crime. But, I would also argue that the system should be split in two, one for the “good” guys, and one for the “bad” guys.

If you are agreeable, I can post what I got so far in here, and merge the ideas, or you can pick through what you find interesting, or I can create a new thread someday and link back to this one. It’s rather lengthy, is why I ask. Let me know.

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Well I do require 100M ISK in advance but after that please feel free to post what you like :lying_face:

I am curious to hear your ideas on that…

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I don’t own this topic, I only started it. Have at it, I’d love to hear what you have to say!

Nice try! However, bringing content to forums… +1 :joy:

Much of it is still in the works, but your insights would be much appreciated.

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Will do. It is rather lengthy as I mentioned, and still rough, and I didn’t want to derail your own topic. Take what you will from it, if anything is worthwhile. Appreciate you letting me post in here, as I may have to take a break soon, as real life is calling, and I probably wouldn’t have time to maintain my own thread.

EVE Online Bounty


There are many bounty suggestions, and I have tried posting an idea in one of them. But since the concept is so complex (and fair warning - they are all long reads, including this one!), it may be appropriate to start separate threads for each one. I think I’ve refined the idea enough to post my own thread on the topic, but even if this idea sinks down into the forum depths never to be seen again, I feel it’s worthwhile for the community to keep trying.

It seems like many people want a working bounty system that is fun for both hunters and criminals. And, in theory, it would make high sec in EVE a very vibrant and interesting place. A place where there is rule of law, but at the same time a kind of Wild West vibe.

I will edit the post with any better modifications offered. I know this is a controversial topic, please keep any discussion civil and constructive.

Current Bounty System

The current system seems to suffer from a major flaw that bounties can come from any source, such as a legitimate bounty against a crime committed, but also from trolls and criminals against a law abiding citizen. Then trying to “deputize” law abiding hunters to possibly go after law abiding citizens is one thing that holds back the game mechanic, not to mention the current kill right system which is easily abused, and also just doesn’t make sense. The bounty system must be split into at least two mechanisms, one for the “good guys” and one for the “bad guys”, to have any chance at becoming a working sensible system.

The “Good Guy” Bounty System

Awaiting a better name, we can maybe refer to the “Good Guy” System as the CONCORD Bounty for now, as it is likely CONCORD that is giving permission for aggression in these possible high sec engagements. I will summarize the bounty mechanic and then try to explain each item afterwards.

  1. Bounty can only be placed on a perpetrator while they still have a suspect/criminal timer active, and may only be placed by the victim.

  2. If this new bounty system is tight enough to prevent most abuse, then bounty payout can maybe be increased to 50% of ship+fit

  3. Bounty kill rights are only granted on a criminal for (x) isk worth of bounty collection in a day, after which they cannot be legally aggressed again for 24 hours

  4. Hunter can activate kill right on criminal when in same system, and after (y) seconds, can legally agress the criminal for (z) minutes, after which there may be a cool down of 15(?) minutes

  5. Bounties can only be collected in high sec (and maybe low sec)

Details for items above:

(1) The CONCORD bounty should only be used for legal retribution. The idea being that even if the criminal act was a gank, and CONCORD already extracted vengeance by relieving the criminal of their ship, the victim may still feel like they are not “even”, especially if the victim was in an Indy with 100mil isk worth of cargo, and the criminal was in a 2mil isk Catalyst. The bounty system should provide a way for the victim to feel like they can get “even”, and the victim should also be assured that the system works, or the whole thing comes crashing down. Making the system only accept bounties while a suspect/criminal timer is active assures that it is strictly for retribution against criminal acts, and prevents abuse by criminals or trolls against law abiders. But if the victim neglects to place their bounty within the time frame given, then they forfeit their chance at retribution through the bounty system. Also, AFAIK, the current bounty system does not have a cap on how much bounty can be placed, so not sure if that should be true as well for new system.

(2) The current payout IIRC is 20% of ship+fit. Can it be increased if it is more difficult to game the system?

(3) Criminals shouldn’t be able to be harassed 24hr/day, there’s criminal activity that’s gotta get done, or there would be no criminals to chase. There should be a mechanic that if they haven’t been able to keep one step ahead of the law, then once “enough” justice has been served on them in one day, they should then be able to continue on with their enterprise, with no further kill rights till the next day. However, some input on exactly how much “enough” is to determine what (x) isk amount in bounty collected would be appreciated here. Perhaps 2mil isk bounty collection as a starting point, ensuring that at least 4mil isk in assets was forfeited. Or it could be tied to % of total bounties or security status somehow.

(4) People with bounties on them are very unlikely online 23/7. There should be a game mechanic that allows for if someone is out hunting and they happen to spot a bounty in system, they should have a means to take action, as the chance may not come again given players’ schedules.

(5) Not sure how important this mechanic would be, maybe more for RP element. The criminal maybe should have a way to escape bounty collection, as in crossing “the border”. Once across, a kill right and bounty payout could possibly deactivate. Whether “the border” should end at high sec or low sec can be up for debate.

The “Bad Guy” Bounty System

The “Bad Guy” system, again for a lack of a better name, is basically a “hit” list that anyone can make against their enemies. It works somewhat similar to the current bounty system. The new suggested mechanics of which may have some abusable elements which I may not have foreseen, but hopefully they can be worked through. Some interesting elements may be:

  1. A “hit” may only be placed from low sec (maybe null?)
  2. The “hit” may work like contracts. It should have the target’s name, payout, and maybe even some conditionals, like the system the hit needs to take place in, minimum value of ship, pod kill, etc…
  3. The hunter trying to collect can only accept “hit” contracts in low sec (null?) and must meet all the conditions to be able to collect.
  4. Once all conditions have been met, the full bounty will be paid out automatically in one week. However, as an interesting mechanic, the person who is paying out for the “hit” can cancel the payout any time before the payment is finalized. This allows them to verify if the “hit” was legit, and not some scam. But could also promote “no honor among thieves” stories. Not sure, but another possible side effect may be a new “broker” profession.
  5. Perhaps another interesting mechanic may be that the target will not know the value of the “hit”, only a black mark will appear next to portrait. They won’t be able to find out the value unless they go to low sec. Not really a necessary mechanic, maybe for drama mostly.
  6. High sec “hits” still fall under applicable rules, e.g. gank attempts will still be CONCORDEKKENNED.
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It’s just about bedtime so I need to keep this short.

Good Guy system

  1. I look at this more like IRL, where anyone can be a bounty hunter but them must operate within the bounds of the law . I would suggest saying that in addition to Concord placing a base bounty on a criminal, the victim also can add to that if they want. So if Concord’s standard bounty is based on the same system as insurance, ganking a T1 frigate might see you get a 300K bounty…the victim might add onto that but no matter what, the perp is now “worth more” to the real bounty hunters.
  2. The whole % based system needs to be tossed…
  3. This can be gamed very easily to earn their daily peace and quiet.
  4. Cant’ comment as it’s a bit vague
  5. Totally disagree with this as it can be totally gamed by using WHs or just dropping to LS/NS.

The “Bad guy” system is, sorry but, contrived. The whole point of a bounty system it to legally enter combat with a “perp” and hope to claim the bounty. That’s it. A Mafia-style contract is very RP’ish and should never be sanctioned by Concorde meaning it’s a crime…which is what we have now. (ie hiring mercs). So what is being gained then?

Sorry if I poo-poo’ed that a lot…

  1. I agree here. Not sure if I was clear, but yah victim should be able to place bounty during “crime” timers. But if there should be a limit on value of placed bounty I had some questions.
  2. Percent isn’t the ideal system, but it seems the best idea at this time to prevent abuse.
  3. True, but at a cost, if a minimum value of bounty collected must be achieved. What the minimum value is I don’t know. But yes, if someone is willing to pay the price daily, it can be gamed.
  4. This may still need work, but the idea is to be able to hunt perps on sight, as player’s schedules can be very different, and the opportunity to strike is sometimes “now”.
  5. This is true, but just thought it would be an interesting game mechanic for criminals to be able to “escape” the reach of the law, but not a necessity.

I think the idea behind this is a way to be able to put a bounty on anyone like the current system, but to be able to collect the full bounty. I think that was kinda the attempt by the current system to simulate shady people trying to get rid of their competition or enemies, but it didn’t quite work cause trying to be lawful mechanic and sweeping up law abiders doesn’t quite make sense. But I understand the critique.

No worries at all. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, just thought I’d throw some ideas out there and hope something sticks. I’m still convinced however that the system needs to be split in two. But regardless, as I’ve said, hopefully people keep trying to come up with a new system. :nerd_face: