Market Bots - The market is saturated and something needs to be done asap- Read!

But he has reported them in the past and they have been banned.

Trade bots do definitely exist- and because they are a product thats make people cash irl they are easy to find on the internet and buy because these people want customers.

If you research what these bots can and cant do, and how they can be set up to avoid detection, you will realise that

a) some of the things people see as PROOF of botting are not conclusive proof, but they are suspicious and should be reported- but several of the behaviours declared
proof of botting in this thread could be and are done by real humans.
b) the bots that you want to worry about are not running 23/7 7 days a week, they are running for a few hours at a time, mimicking the actions of a real player, one operator may run several of these, many will be behind vpns and appear to be in different physical locations behind accounts paid for with stolen ccs or actually stolen accounts- one human ‘botter’ may run tens or hundreds of bots.
c) if CCP did not care then we would not be having this conversation because it would be impossible for a real player to compete and play the market at all, because they would be everywhere-
plus the OP has had them banned in the past.
d) it benefits the bot makers and RMT people to muddy the waters and to not ony mimick real players but to report actual real players as bots, just as the ‘its not worth reporting it they don’t do anything about it’ narrative plays into the hands of these same people
e) CCP make a massive amount of their income from plex sales- if botting becomes too common and is unreported the RMT traders will be able to undercut CCP and offer more isk per cash payment, and the market for real plex will fall, pushing in game plex prices up further, this will affect players in game and lower CCPs profits (but the botters can still plex their accounts because they have no opportunity cost and can grind 23/7)
f) banning individual botting character or accounts is less important than removing the networks that allow these bots to operate beneath the radar, the person behind the 50 alpha accounts all working in unison for instance- this is why the CCP team who do this cannot just play eve and ban characters who ‘appear to be bots’ even if they also have proof we do not have- they have to take down a bunch at once nd in such a way they do not reveal their hand.
g)CCP cannot provide players with information about these activities, because they don’t know if the guy reporting botting will use the information to hunt more bots, or to refine the bots he was actually running- because botters file bot reports.

Please report all suspicious activity, but do not behave like the old lady who keeps writing letters to the council about all the graphiti in town, they keep cleaning it up, but if the vandals wont stop and no one reports them to the police or steps in when they see it happening, what can the council do other than send the cleaning crews out day after day?

Your are fine, we will not confuse you with bots :wink: Yesterday I had mixed results, was able to rise the price a bit on another item but there were definitely more humans involved.

Just an update to my previous post

I managed to gather more pilots who are 99.99% bots. Their behaviors are pretty much consistent with the ones that I did explain in that post.

  • in an NPC corp
  • buy orders duration set @ 3 days
  • similar contract history, they all bought Acolyte I BPO at 500-700m ISK a couple of times
  • characters were created around mid July 2017
  • they seem to be targeting items that have wide gap of buy/sell order and the ones with enough trade volume to make decent profit.

This is a real problem since they apparently have so many alts, and they spread their buy/sell orders in so many commodities.

WIth all these bots, there’s no way players would be able to compete in the market game… Players would end up having to sell/buy anything immediately: put an order then 5-6 minutes later bots will bump/cut the price. This will definitely ruin the gameplay for people who likes trading or even manufacturing.

I sent a ticket to CCP, I hope this can be sorted out.

I think you will receive the standard reply. Please send xxx to security@ccpgames.com. We will take this seriously and investigate, but we will not inform you of the outcome.

Translation: Presses delete key on the email. Empties recycle bin.

No doubt that bots exist. I’m just not sure how ccp can detect them accurately. Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFv93mNI86w

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I agree with reporting suspicions of botting.

I’ve gotten mining bots banned that way, where I wasn’t certain they were bots (they might have been ISBoxing and it was back when that was still legal) but they made me super sus so I reported them. Couple weeks later there’s a fountain of tears from someone claiming to have been unjustly banned - it was the guy I’d bumped and tried to gank, and whose reaction looked more like a bot than a player.

My report was very clear ‘I suspect botting but I’m not sure. This is why’.

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That is scary isn’t it!
Don’t think that one is for sale though- the guy implies writing it and running it led to him quitting eve
but there is an Azkuriel in CAS still
Wouldn’t post the video under his in game now though surely?
Worth reporting after 7 years? Because I am sure CCP staff could see from that video when the bot was operating and kill it- I don’t know.

What’s really scary- is that this just makes eve markets more like rl markets- no room for the little guy- this thing isn’t just bidding to fixed parameters its picking items and actually trading like a rl trade bot!

If anyone can find a bot like this for sale or source code available anywhere please please let CCP know!

I still maintain that discouraging people from reporting bots when there are multiple reports of botters getting bans, and furthering the narrative OMG nothing to be done don’t bother trading the bots win, benefits only botters and the few real traders who would remain.

The ISKs gathered from those bots probably end up to a bunch of RMT syndicates…

I managed to trace their contract history. They all have suspicious contracts… Also, almost all of them are in NPC corps.

I believe the reasons why they are in NPC corps are simply because the people who run the bots do not want to bother PLEXing them, they seem to be fresh clones. That way they can get more ISK from the profit. So in overall: multiple Alpha logins + input automation. There’s no reason such thing should be tolerated…

I agree, but that doesn’t mean the absence of immediate bans indicates that 'nothing is being done’
or that we should stop noticing and reporting

CCP decided to allow a form of RMT in the form of plex, to allow people to buy isk without it being cashed out for rl cash, breaking the economy, they did this because botting was getting out of hand and the end was in site.

Plex is now a huge part of CCPs income stream.

RMT botters are not just in direct competition with players, they are in direct competition with CCP the company, and if they are using multiple alphas then they are not even providing CCP with subs.

So unless CCP and their shareholders want to lose as much money as possible, you can rest assured they will do what they can to counter them.

As we are seeing in this thread, this is not as easy as it may seem.

Report Report Report.

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@ Celengan Babi

Of your list, and be careful of posting names, CCP worries about it hurting their feelings… even if thy are all bots, all were known to me bar 6 - So in total we know of 57 bots currently working the market. (I’ll send you my list in game for your info)

As I type this 41 are currently logged in.

At the players who state they don’t exist - you are either naïve or complicit in their use -

As for players who state their is insufficient evidence for CCP to act - Their is, more than enough - I’ve sent people to prison for 25 years and more with less evidence that I’ve provided them with.,

For those that state CCP is smart, hence why they haven’t done anything yet, originally I also thought this. However, having now been reporting them for 9 months and having seen first hand the replies to various tickets I’ve put in I can definitely state they aren’t … this has been going on for ages and with time the numbers have grown to epidemic volumes and they have become brazen with the way they operate. This should have been controlled and managed ages ago. Yes, you will never eradicate bots totally, but you can make it difficult for them and keep their numbers down.

I’m also positive that 99% of these bots which I’ve identified, belong to the same operation, their are two many factors in common to be multiple different players running these particular bots.

Also, for info, after the launcher patch, none logged in for 12 hours. I thought great, CCP’s actually done something, then suddenly obviously someone their side realised and bosh, on they all came within 30 minutes of each other

Anyway, as far as I’m concerned, too little too late CCP - I’m in the process of securing my assets, then I’ll cancel my accounts for 6 months and then maybe I’ll return to see if its sorted

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A 5 minute google search will lead you to tons of EVE market bots. I’m sure ccp are aware these websites exist, and that people pay to buy these bots. Why don’t CCP kill the problem at source - get the websites banned by legal means. I know, they will jsut pop up under a different domain, but they may as well use their legal means at their disposal and play whack-a-mole. Maybe they will piss off the bot creators enough that they will stop.

Will never be able to ban the websites, don’t have the authority or the legal means - Took years of legal wrangling before certain country’s / broadband providers even restricted access to sites like piratebay and that’s where they could evidence copyright / loss of revenue - and even if they did ban them by some miracle, they would just pop up somewhere else.

Currently 41 bots logged in

Yes obviously, except have you read the rest of the thread?

THAT bot, is most definitely NOT a run of the mill bot, as for ‘killing the problem at source’ well you just explained why that doesn’t work in your own post.

Primarily because the actions taken would require the sites to be hosted and maintained within their jurisdiction. If I was running a bot/rmt site out of Cambodia, there isnt much CCP has in their legal toolbox to take the site down.

Below is the last two days profit on one item from one bot. At times I am able to clear close to a few billion isk a day farming trading scripts. I understand their script well enough that if their order size is large enough I can empty wallets down to a few million isk thanks to bids cancelling from insufficient isk and some math.

  • They update all bids, then all offers, never both on the same pass.
  • They will not operate more than one bid or offer at a time even if they hold inventory. They will relist partial fills but will not put up a second order until the first relisting gets filled.
  • If the gap is too large and the bot will not take the bait, place a second order just in front of the bots bid/offer and for whatever reason it will outbid/uncut the grossly placed bait order.
  • Order size will scale with historical trade volume (great for those that exploit trade scripts)
  • Update frequency I believe is dependent on number of orders the script is managing, cannot confirm it, but when the bot is low on isk and I know bids are cancelling, updates occur more frequently.
  • The bots will not overbid or undercut if the projected return is below a specific amount. I have no determined yet if it is a percentage or a flat amount.
  • The bots I find typically operate in at least two ~6 hour windows throughout a 24 hour cycle.
  • The majority of scripts I have found have very odd contract history.
  • If you deadzone the market, by killing the spread between the best bid and offer, the bots will glitch out and drop their prices by odd amounts. I have used this to deflate the market when multiple bots have created a wall of orders I do not want to fill.

One of the bots no longer trades in this market (after losing about 35 billion) but I have found them trading elite battleships. For the last 10 months I have been reporting and taking isk from scripts like this. Their login and updating frequency is highly predictable after a week or so of observation.

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Very nicely milked - This is the way to hurt them and have fun and make isk in the process

Hopefully more players can do this - post if you have been able to do so

38 known bots currently logged in

Odd contract history, you mean laundering/RMT?

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Those bots… They seem to trade scam contracts to each other.

If you have their names and trace their contracts, at the end it all points to few pilots who probably hold all the ISKs for RMT by faking scam contracts to their actual buyers…

Yeah, I did exactly that, spent weeks mapping out their contract histories. You have toons which are used specifically for buying and selling. Then their are toons which are used for isk laundering - basically they move it backwards and forth across each other so as to confuse the paper trail. Then you have toons which are used to sell directly to the isk buyers - Some of these toons are used for short periods, some have months of contracts totalling trillion plus

My own list of known active 'bot buyers / sellers" now sits at 62. I just cleared multiple hangars and dumped 30 bill plus of various modules I had hoarded over the years onto the market, 90% of which I did by way of mass sells, and I would say 30% of goods sold, when I scanned my transaction history, were to names that I recognised from my bot list… and I am sure I am just looking at the tip of the iceberg here. Every day I find 3 or 4 more. Knowing what I know now, having watched them expand and grow for the last 9 months, I really wouldn’t be surprised if 50 to 60% of the market was infact bots.

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This one was a little more conservatively scripted, takes longer, but still exploitable.

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Very nice detective work people! Let’s hope CCP sort their ■■■■ out and do something instead of claiming they are “monitoring the situation”. I get watching for a bit to see if you can root out the more in-depth problems and catch more of them, but it’s getting ridiculous they are sitting on their ass and not intervening.

Even a response on this thread would be progress…

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