Modularity

[James_Crespenyan]

Hi all, I have a proposition:
Introduction to the module and engine damage system in EVE Online

The basic principles of separating a ship into a main part and an engine
Right now in EVE Online, a ship is a single unit, making any major damage critical to the entire ship. I propose to split the ship into two main parts: the hull and the engine. This will allow for a deeper and more realistic damage system, where a bad shot to the engine can change the outcome of a battle, and hull damage affects the modules and overall survivability of the ship.

The effect of damage on ship modules
Suggestion that if armor is damaged, the modules installed on it will be affected as well. If the main armor is damaged, it should affect the functionality of the modules: they start to work intermittently or fail altogether. This will add an element of realism and strategic depth to battles.

How engine damage affects overall performance
Engine damage should significantly reduce a ship’s maneuverability and speed, up to and including the inability to move and use warp drive. This will create more tactical solutions and challenges on the battlefield. For example, players will be able to target an enemy’s engine to slow them down and destroy them in the long term.

How module damage works in EVE Online
Mechanics of module damage when hitting the main part of a ship without a shield
In the current system, modules can only be damaged when the hull is heavily damaged. I propose to make it so that modules are damaged when hitting the main part of the ship without a shield. This will incentivize players to more actively use shield regs to shield their ships. The focus should be on critical nodes that can be damaged, reducing the effectiveness of modules.

Types of Damageable Modules
Modules can be divided into several categories: weapons, control systems, sensors, and other support systems. Each category should have its own system of damage and consequences for the ship, which will add even more strategy in prioritizing targets and using different modulation schemes on ships.

Engine Damage Process in EVE Online.
Differences between ship main part damage and engine damage
Core and engine damage should affect a ship differently. For example, severe engine damage can result in a complete loss of maneuverability and warp capability, while core damage will affect mainly modules and their functionality.

How engine damage affects maneuverability and speed, inability to move and warp
Maneuverability and speed are critical parameters for survival in any battle. If a fleet can warp, it’s already a victory. A damaged engine should cut the maneuverability of the ship, increase the time to turn and reduce the maximum speed. This will greatly enhance the dynamics of battles, providing more tactical options.

Possible strategies to avoid engine damage
Players can use various methods to protect the engine. For example, installing additional regs and engine modules, using special modules to increase engine protection, or employing tactical strategies such as keeping a distance from enemy vessels.

Tanking
How damage reduction works for ships on shields.
The primary method of damage defense for shield-oriented ships is to use regs and shield modules. These ships should have increased base resistance, but the modules will be relatively vulnerable. That is, when shields are penetrated, modules will start taking damage much faster.

How damage reduction works for armor-centric ships.
Armor-focused ships, on the other hand, should have reduced base resistance to shields, but increased damage resistance to hull and therefore module defense. This will give players more options for adapting and choosing a defense strategy depending on specific combat conditions.

Strategies for dealing with module damage in combat
Rigging for module and engine defense
Players can install special regs that enhance module and engine defense. This will add another layer of depth to ship customization and allow for more flexibility in tailoring ships to specific missions.

Logisticians fixing modules
Logistic ships should get the ability to not only repair hull, armor, and shields, but also deal with repairing damaged modules right during combat. This would make the role of logisticians even more important and increase the importance of teamwork.

Periodic repair of modules
After combat, players should be able to mend and repair their modules at stations or with special ships. This will create an additional management and planning aspect, as well as increase interaction between different elements of gameplay.

Separation of HP of the Greve Module and HP of the Armor Module
Explanation of the new HP splitting system
I propose to introduce a system where each module will have two types of HP: the HP of the warmachine and the HP of the armor module. The HP of Grev will decrease when using Grev, and the HP of module armor will decrease when taking damage.

Don’t Break Grev
Grev is an important part of combat, and breaking it can be critical. In order not to break ships and tactics on the grev and will be divided between modules.

The impact of damage systems on tactics and strategy in EVE Online
How the new damage mechanics will change gameplay
The introduction of the new damage system will significantly change the tactical and strategic aspects of playing EVE Online. Players will have to consider not only direct damage, but also recognize the value of defending modules and engines. This will add complexity and variety to fleet building and tactical choices.

Advantages and disadvantages of different tactical approaches
Different strategies, such as engine or module defense, will have their advantages and disadvantages. For example, protection-enhanced engines will be able to maneuver longer, while more preserved modules will allow for prolonged combat at high efficiency. This creates an interesting choice for captains and planners.

Adapting strategies to the updated combat environment
Players will have to adapt their approaches and strategies to the new damage mechanics. This may include utilizing new combinations of modules, regs, and strategies, as well as changing tactics depending on the specific situation and enemy fleet compositions.

Analyzing the impact of the new system on PvP and PvE

How the changes affect PvP battles
In PvP battles, the new mechanics will provide deeper and more varied opportunities for tactical maneuvering and attack planning. For example, you can focus on destroying an enemy’s engines to temporarily neutralize their ships, or on damaging modules by reducing the

Pros and cons of the new damage mechanism

A detailed analysis of the advantages of the new system
Realism and deeper gameplay: The new system adds more realism, making each battle more strategic.
More variety: A variety of tactical approaches and strategies related to module and engine defense.
Role of logisticians: Increased importance of logisticians on the battlefield thanks to new module repair capabilities.
Possible drawbacks and ways to minimize them
Complexity of implementation: The new system will require significant changes to the code and mechanics of the game, which may trigger the development and implementation of the update.
Balancing: There could be balancing issues with the new mechanics that could disrupt the current metagame.
Learnability for new players: The new system can be a difficult barrier for new players. Tutorials and guides can be introduced to minimize this.
Server issues
The new damage mechanism for modules and engines can put additional strain on servers, especially in large battles. Code optimization and the use of additional server valotes can be considered to solve this problem.

The future of module and engine damage in EVE Online

Potential updates and improvements to the system
In addition to the changes described above, the future of the damage system may include the introduction of new module types and defense systems. Dynamic parameter customization for different ship types and fleet roles could also be considered.

How this could affect the economy and market within the game
The new damage system is likely to affect the market and economy within the game. For example, the demand for repair components, regs and defense modules, will increase significantly. We can also predict changes in the prices of individual ship types and their modules, depending on their defense and efficiency.

In conclusion, the introduction of the new module and engine damage system in EVE Online opens up many opportunities to improve gameplay, increase the strategic depth of battles and increase the role of teamwork in the game. These changes will make the game even more interesting and engaging, as well as attract new players and keep veteran players interested. Let’s work together to make EVE Online even better!

[Gerard_Amatin]

Personally I think EVE’s combat is complex enough already.

If you wish to affect the speed of an enemy ship you don’t need to shoot their armor to reduce speed (how would that be balanced for ships that do armor-tanking vs shield tanking?), but you can use a webifier.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

Personally I think EVE’s combat is complex enough already.

If you wish to affect the speed of an enemy ship you don’t need to shoot their armor to reduce speed (how would that be balanced for ships that do armor-tanking vs shield tanking?), but you can use a webifier.

Maybe, but it seems to me that the big battles are linear, and this would add variety.
About the ships that tank armor I have an idea:
The damage on the modules will be reduced by 80-95%.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Module damage already exists though as result of overheating. New sources of module damage would mess up any kind of heat management.

[Andlaust]

@James_Crespenyan

Maybe, but it seems to me that the big battles are linear, and this would add variety.

Big fleet battles have always, and always will, follow whatever the meta is. The theorycrafters will figure out the most efficient fits to accomplish a given task within the bounds of the current hull bonuses. Your idea adds needless complexity to an already complex system that I don’t think you really understand. If fleets feel linear, it may be because the FCs have gotten good at using the tactics surrounding the current meta, and it’s time for a shift in meta instead of a whole new system.

Also, I ran a few text based space combat games back in the 90s that had similar modular damage systems. Those were insanely complex on a MUSH code-base intended for text based battles involving up to a dozen ships. Instituting the like in a game with thousands in a battle would make the server melt. We already have to deal with tidi to keep up with the data that already overloads the server during battles of a few hundred.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

Module damage already exists though as result of overheating. New sources of module damage would mess up any kind of heat management.

I know this, so the suggested idea is:

@James_Crespenyan

Separation of HP of the Greve Module and HP of the Armor Module
Explanation of the new HP splitting system
I propose to introduce a system where each module will have two types of HP: the HP of the warmachine and the HP of the armor module. The HP of Grev will decrease when using Grev, and the HP of module armor will decrease when taking damage.

Don’t Break Grev
Grev is an important part of combat, and breaking it can be critical. In order not to break ships and tactics on the grev and will be divided between modules.

I tried to take into account all the changes in other systems, such as heating.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Andlaust

Big fleet battles have always, and always will, follow whatever the meta is. The theorycrafters will figure out the most efficient fits to accomplish a given task within the bounds of the current hull bonuses. Your idea adds needless complexity to an already complex system that I don’t think you really understand. If fleets feel linear, it may be because the FCs have gotten good at using the tactics surrounding the current meta, and it’s time for a shift in meta instead of a whole new system.

Also, I ran a few text based space combat games back in the 90s that had similar modular damage systems. Those were insanely complex on a MUSH code-base intended for text based battles involving up to a dozen ships. Instituting the like in a game with thousands in a battle would make the server melt. We already have to deal with tidi to keep up with the data that already overloads the server during battles of a few hundred.

Because of, as you say meta battles and tactics happen linearly. But my system, yes will complicate the current system, yes is difficult to implement, but this idea can remove the concept of meta.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@James_Crespenyan

but this idea can remove the concept of meta.

Doubt.

Nothing in a game will remove the concept of a meta, changes just shake up the meta until it settles at a new meta.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

Doubt.

Nothing in a game will remove the concept of a meta, changes just shake up the meta until it settles at a new meta.

At the very least it could give variety to the meta itself. Maybe by 5 meta ships, but 20. I assume that my idea will give first of all new non-meta tactics, which will depend on the imagination of the players, and already from the tasks of this tactic will be determined by the ships.

[Gerard_Amatin]

I had not realised how new you were to the game. It looks like you started EVE a month ago, correct? If so, welcome!

After playing one month you may still have to experience and learn about many things that make EVE’s combat complex. I mean, even at 7 years into the game I still learn new things and I realise there are parts of EVE combat I only vaguely know about.

What I do know is that EVE combat is one of the most complex and initially unintuitive of most games I have played - fun, deep, always things to miss or to optimize.

Maybe before you suggest adding another layer of complexity, learn how the combat works now, how your suggestions may affect combat balance and get a feeling for what EVE combat could use to get better.

More complexity and for example additional ways to target an enemy ship’s speed or other stats are not needed, if you ask me. We already have specialised EWAR and a whole line of ships for that purpose, like a Rapier with Webifiers if you want to reduce the speed of a ship.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

I had not realised how new you were to the game. It looks like you started EVE a month ago, correct? If so, welcome!

After playing one month you may still have to experience and learn about many things that make EVE’s combat complex. I mean, even at 7 years into the game I still learn new things and I realise there are parts of EVE combat I only vaguely know about.

What I do know is that EVE combat is one of the most complex and initially unintuitive of most games I have played - fun, deep, always things to miss or to optimize.

Maybe before you suggest adding another layer of complexity, learn how the combat works now, how your suggestions may affect combat balance and get a feeling for what EVE combat could use to get better.

More complexity and for example additional ways to target an enemy ship’s speed or other stats are not needed, if you ask me. We already have specialised EWAR and a whole line of ships for that purpose, like a Rapier with Webifiers if you want to reduce the speed of a ship.

YES, I am a newbie. I have this opinion about battles from youtube videos, comments and friends’ stories. Maybe my perception is wrong, but in my opinion my suggestion is interesting for development in EVE. I just want EVE to become better. For example, the battles are not linear. I don’t like that there is only one faction in the battles, it’s Amarrs, it would be good that the other factions (Calgary, Gallente, Minmata) also actively participated in the big battles, but unfortunately it happens very, very rarely.

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

You see one faction ships because damage and weapon type. Missiles/torps arent the total best for pvp so most go for lasers

[James_Crespenyan]

@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras

You see one faction ships because damage and weapon type. Missiles/torps arent the total best for pvp so most go for lasers

Yes, it is. That is why I proposed this idea to start using, as you said, missiles and torpedoes. I hope that at some point other types of guns will be used in pvp, including big battles. It is because of the meta weapons and line tactics. I think it is worth changing and diversifying this. Add new options so that there can be new tactics.

[Gerard_Amatin]

Wanting EVE to become better is a good thing to strive for!

When you say that only one faction, Amarr, is part of big battles, what are you referring to?

As far as I know ships of all factions are used in all sorts of battles.

It is true that Redeemer fleets are popular and that the Amarr dread is in favour at the moment taking over the Minmatar Naglfar that used to be popular before, but to change that the game doesn’t need drastic combat system changes. A couple of buffs or nerfs to ships would be enough to create a new meta in which Amarr blops and dreads are no longer the most popular choices.

[ResonanceOfWar]

Go do some research on what CCP Aurora was talking about during the fw update (uprising).
There was talk about Capitals having modular peices where you can disable their engines shields drone bays and so on.

It makes no sense for subcaps but for capitals different story at those levels the game play slows down and complexity goes down which then opens up the opportunity for more component’s.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

Wanting EVE to become better is a good thing to strive for!

When you say that only one faction, Amarr, is part of big battles, what are you referring to?

As far as I know ships of all factions are used in all sorts of battles.

It is true that Redeemer fleets are popular and that the Amarr dread is in favour at the moment taking over the Minmatar Naglfar that used to be popular before, but to change that the game doesn’t need drastic combat system changes. A couple of buffs or nerfs to ships would be enough to create a new meta in which Amarr blops and dreads are no longer the most popular choices.

@ResonanceOfWar

Go do some research on what CCP Aurora was talking about during the fw update (uprising).
There was talk about Capitals having modular peices where you can disable their engines shields drone bays and so on.

It makes no sense for subcaps but for capitals different story at those levels the game play slows down and complexity goes down which then opens up the opportunity for more component’s.

Even in the event that the meta changes or is changed in any way, it won’t change the tactics and strategy of battles. We need to think of something to affect not only the meta but also the battles themselves.

[Gerard_Amatin]

What is it about EVE battles that is currently happening and needs to be changed?

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

What is it about EVE battles that is currently happening and needs to be changed?

As far as I know, in the current reals, the big battles happen in a linear fashion, viz:

1. Bubble: Deploying mobile warp-disruptors to control space and impede enemy warp-dislocation.
2. Focus of Fire: Concentrating all of the fleet’s guns on a single target for rapid destruction.
3. Kiting: A successful tactic for maintaining distance and avoiding the powerful volley fire of enemy teams.
4. Blank: Utilizing Supercapitals and Titans to deliver one big blow to a high-priority target.
   Problems during battles
   No maneuvers, detours, or other tactical ideas. Once a fleet has taken a position, it is unlikely they will move anywhere. If players wanted maneuvers, they would do them. But right now there is no need for them. My idea brought just new tactics. For example, go in and destroy the engines at once. Or overreach and hit the modules.
   Since I am inexperienced in this, I could be wrong about something, please correct me.

[Gerard_Amatin]

I recommend you to take part in some of those fights then!

Join a newbie-friendly alliance in a null sec bloc, prepare some doctrine ships and watch for fleet pings. Eventually one fight may get to the point that titans are involved, but that’s a really rare sight.

Large fights are far from linear and often very chaotic. Multiple fleets with different goals, some people gettibg caught out when they make a mistake, groups threatening with escalation or escalating the battle, third parties deciding to join a side or are opportunistic and go for strugglers… usually the grid is too much of a mess once hundreds of ships are fighting for me to see exactly what is going on.

But if you have the gift to clearly see what’s happening in such situations and know what the next best step is, you may do well as fleet commander (once you get some experience with the game). Groups are always looking for more fcs.

[James_Crespenyan]

@Gerard_Amatin

I recommend you to take part in some of those fights then!

Join a newbie-friendly alliance in a null sec bloc, prepare some doctrine ships and watch for fleet pings. Eventually one fight may get to the point that titans are involved, but that’s a really rare sight.

Large fights are far from linear and often very chaotic. Multiple fleets with different goals, some people gettibg caught out when they make a mistake, groups threatening with escalation or escalating the battle, third parties deciding to join a side or are opportunistic and go for strugglers… usually the grid is too much of a mess once hundreds of ships are fighting for me to see exactly what is going on.

But if you have the gift to clearly see what’s happening in such situations and know what the next best step is, you may do well as fleet commander (once you get some experience with the game). Groups are always looking for more fcs.

Thanks for the advice! I’ll keep it in mind!
I did see it in the video before the fight though. But during, it’s rare to rewarp and move around. Often in big battles, as far as I know, it’s not tactics but dps and alpha that makes the difference.
Correct me if that’s not true.