To me, it just means they are conceding the field 
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No idea if this reflects CCP policy or not.
I’m going to block Lucas Kell, since he seems to be a persistent troll.
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I don’t look at local chat, I have the window sized to see only the users collumn. I have no interest in seeing what sorts of idiocies are being said in local, I mean when it’s not messages to rip someone off or be disgustingly sexist… And Gix trying to revive local proves my point.
Don’t hate participate
See, you make this promise and yet you’ll still be lobbing insults at me the moment I present an opinion you disagree with.
At any point are you guys planning to actually stay on topic?
Ganking is too easy, damages the reputation of the game by presenting it as a place for griefers (which it is, because most gankers are doing it to “salt mine”) and it causes new player churn. Ganking should be nerfed heavily or removed entirely.
tbh I think the topic has been milked dry, all points have been repeated and iterated on.
PvP is part of New Eden, it’s what makes it dark and dangerous, it’s the excitement factor. The game is going nowhere fast if the goal is to start attracting people who will never understand it, embrace its nature, and uphold its reputation of being complex, hard, even gleefully naughty. Add to that the fact that ccp is too small a company - not to mention ‘unfocused’ - to turn this game into a theme park successfully, let alone maintain it as such. If the current influx of potential players mostly contains people who are no longer up for a tough game then we may have bigger issues than the survival of this game…
But there’s no longer a point in repeating all this.
This thread is where other, similar threads find a resting place.
Amen.
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In what universe is that being upheld by gankers that have refined ganking to the point that it’s effectively a very easy PvE activity? And it’s not like ganking actually creates any difficulty in the long run, it’s just there as a potential blocker for early progress, disproportionately affecting new players.
TBH, most of the difficulty in EVE has always been unintuitive UI rather than actually difficult gameplay.
I think the ghost in the shell is having a little rage attack lol
Ganking and highsec PVP is comparatively very weak compared to it’s state throughout the game’s history. HP of ships like barges and freighters are up, and with sub prices alt numbers are down.
There’s no conclusive evidence that the actual act of ganking harms new player experience - quite the opposite as CCP state their data shows that losing ships to other players tends to improve player retention.
The real thing one sees in Rookie Help all the time that drives away new players is scaremongering by snivelling cowards that massively overrate the threat of ganking to both new and experienced players.
Your narrative about “griefing” is based on a completely subjective opinion with no consistent logic to it.
Your arguments are of no value because you refuse to provide evidence for any of your claims.
LOL imagine thinking ganking is a PvE activity.
How embarrassing
Yeah, there was plenty of suicide ganking during the invasions. But there wasn’t that many insane losses for the organized groups outside of really big groups catching people in Niarja. Mainly because both sides roughly understood the mechanics and were smart about it. It’s really a lot easier to stay safe than people seem to think it is, just by learning the mechanics involved in the process. The invasions were actually the first time I had ever tried my hand at suicide ganking people in high sec ( <3 The EDENCOM Stairs Delivery Service and all the alts that helped with that ).
Both sides utilized it to kill the other at times and there was certainly opportunistic third parties. But that’s just something to consider and know how to react to when it happens. There are steps to take to keep yourself safer no matter what you’re doing in every area of space, and high sec is no different. Stuff needs to explode for the Eve economy to persist, but if you’re careful, it doesn’t need to be your stuff too much of the time.
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The game, its design, and playing it, is an intricate interplay of consequences. It would lead to too many words to go in depth on this, and frankly I’m fed up with it at the moment. I’ll just try to exemplify without giving the reasons or reasoning. A question of “what did the author mean with the brown spider on page 46”, that’s the risk I take, lol.
Griefing = harassment = people pushed out of the game = bad
Ganking = (non-consensual) pvp = tough for some, easy for others = not a retention factor other than historic = part of the game.
Hotspots of hisec ganking are a consequence of design choices on many levels, for instance there’s a reason why many rookies pick Caldari, probably multiple reasons. That’s also where hotspots are. Establishing starter systems next to heavy trade routes … you know… Hisec ganking in its current format is an optimized solution.
Amarr space doesn’t have particular issues or high incidences of rookie kills. Minmatar space probably similar. Those are the two areas that are, for several reasons, less popular.
Spread rookies out more efficiently (as a game designer), trade route hotspots will remain where they are, anything related to rookie griefing would become more visible (at least to ccp), etc.
Early progress in this game is of course partially related to isk (and ship losses), but the will to succeed has to be there as well. It has always been a big factor., if not a big filter or selection criterion (yes yes, I’ve been called arrogant and ignorant for saying this, whatever).
A different filter/selection criterion is the sandbox nature of the game. It’s not for everyone, sandboxes are not the most favorite element on any playground. It actually requires imagination to play in it. A swing doesn’t. Sandbox, imagination and the will to get guud have to go hand in hand to be enjoyable. Call me arrogant and ignorant, it doesn’t make it less real.
Ganking in its current shape is a direct consequence to design choices and changes that ccp has made, just like the HAC meta in pvp. When new choices and changes will be made, so will the shape of ganking in hisec.
The potential of misuse of any safety increasing measures by non-pvp’ers is always present, usually announced up front by players on how and why… Those affect the economy directly. Yes, it may for some new players be a reason to linger a while longer, but for the long term health of the game’s economy it is most likely a bad thing. The optimized solutions not only exist in sov gameplay and pvp doctrines, they exist even more (and covertly !) in indy/manuf and especially in trading They are the spreadsheet wizards !! Of course it’s hard to say how exactly, if there is no hint of a change.
dixit
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Except that CCP stated in this fanfest that ganking new players increase new player churn rates. And when you speak to non-EVE players about EVE they’ve often heard that it allows griefing in the form of ganking and that puts them off playing it, so it’s not even just the churn.
And you’ve provided reams of evidence, have you? You’ve got evidence that “snivelling cowards” in rookie chat are having a marked impact on new player retention? I didn’t see you post it.
For the most part it is. It’s the gankers vs the concord mechanics.
Most people do know it’s easy to stay safe, and that’s part of the problem. Ganking disproportionately affects new players because anyone who isn’t a new player is far more able to stay safe.
What percentage of stuff exploding in the game is down to ganking though? I seriously doubt the claims that the removal of ganking would have any noticeable impact on the economy, particularly since the economy has survived far larger and far more targeted changes in recent history.
You literally just supported my point that the overblown fearmongering of ganking is putting people off, not the actual thing itself.
You’re perpetrating it right now by equating people shooting each other for fun in a PVP video game with griefing.
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Chip truth
What has to happen in the NPE is actually teaching peeps how to avoid being ganked. It may still happen, but if you keep your wits about you, you’ll be good for the most part.
There was one system in Amarr that burns on the reg, unsure if it still does.
For Min, Hek has ganking sometimes. Aufay in Gal also gets nuts sometimes.
They said griefing bruv. Not ganking
ROFL. So embarassing. I cannot even imagine why you think this line of reasoning will work. If peeps fitted a proper tank, they’d stand a much better chance of surviving LOL.
So teach them
Or yennoe, they could Google an almost 20 year old game to learn some stuff. Amazing
What boggles my mind is people play EVE but don’t like it LOL.
You chose to play an open world PvP game. Like what the quafe?
I didn’t, but if you want to go ahead and pretend that’s the case, you do you boo.
They aren’t “shooting each other for fun”. It’s overwhelmingly the case that ganking is done to intentionally create a negative response so that the gankers can share and laugh over that response. That’s why they don’t just shoot a ship and move on, they have to try to bait the player into a response using carefully designed techniques to maximise the likelihood of angering the target.
Used to be a couple, back in the big CODE days there was one right near Amarr, on the turnpike up to Aridia, but thats as quiet as the grave now.
The hottest spot in Amarr space is sometimes Odin, but Ive lived in Devoid now for most of my time and really, its nothing.
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yep
but it’s always the question of looking for the reason behind a number, it’s just impossible. Even Lucas admitted it. Numbers don’t tell mindsets, reasons, feelings, retention …
Yeah, there’s definitely opportunity to teach some basic principles about staying safe in the NPE! That’s a good point. Steps to urge people into corporations and better tools for finding good corps in-game will go a long way towards that end too!
As far as the percentage of new players who get ganked versus the percentage of people who’ve been around a bit… I can’t claim to have the numbers. My anecdotal experience leads me to believe it’s not primarily newer players getting blown up. But it’d certainly be interesting to see something like the average age of pilots who lose a ship to gankers and probably moreso exactly how much is lost in value. I expect the overall value of losses is fairly significant, but again that’s just based on my personal experiences and not hard numbers. I do think, though, that without the possibility of ganking, it because almost infinitely safe to do already too safe things like high sec incursions or Abyssal runs.
I do certainly wish there was less toxicity and smack-talk in PvP (in all areas of space, honestly). It’s neither okay to abuse people who kill you or people you kill and both scenarios happen pretty regularly.
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