What if you put 2 noobs in equaly fitted ships against each other?
Winner would be the one with more skillpoints, and you can buy skillpoints.
they would: die to rats, die to sentry guns, to police/CONCORD, to gankers in its in LS/NS, to everything but the other noob. At very least someone at some point will warp to some object and they will never meet again
The amount of autofellatio in this thread is retarded
Yes ofcourse it’s pay 2 win, it’s a pretty clear term.
Nobody said I2WWP (impossible to win without paying)
Free 2 play is generally pay 2 win, unless it’s obviously cosmetic
Tipa Riot is obviously in denial (suspected CCP marketing strategist)
It’s also pretty easy as an NPC alt to make bold claims like this on forums, he wouldn’t try this on his main
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All else being equal, including ship and fits, having the ability to afford more bling modules for it and have more bling implants will give the wealthier player a small (typically a few percent) edge.
However, if the two players are using different ships/fits then that will almost always be a far stronger factor in the fight than wealth.
My alpha took out an abyss fit merlin with an incursus using a mix of meta and t2 mods.
It’s important to note that the wealthier player does not have access to anything the poorer player doesn’t, and that’s why many don’t consider eve pay2win. Poorer players can specialise their training and bling the most important parts of their ship to compete against old players in full bling ships.
There is no “p2win” in eve online, it doesn’t exist
I can give a new player a 200mil SP account
Give him a fully deadspace fit golem
Tell him, “run this level 4”
He will warp to the mission and die
Why? Because having skill points and ships doesn’t mean you know what your doing
SP does not make the pilot, experience makes the pilot. You can buy plex/injectors to your hearts content. It does not and will never make you a better pilot.
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But it will make you move faster, shoot faster, further and more accurately, give you more hitpoints and repair more hitpoints
Nothing you can not max out in a few weeks or months by normal training.
Every time this topic comes up I am surprised at the number of players with their heads in the sand. Have you all like sworn “never to play a P2W game” or something? News flash: you’re playing one!
Because there seems to be a majority denial of reality here. How the hell can a game where you can buy almost anything (characters, skills, ships, modules, friends?) with game currency that can be purchased with real $$$, not be considered P2W? Typically, a game that allows the purchase of in-game items must limit such items to cosmetic items only to avoid the label of P2W. EVE clearly does not do this. I can buy a titan character and a titan tomorrow, using real $$$, completely within the rules of the game.
EVE is a very different game once you are space-rich. If you don’t understand that, you haven’t really been wealthy in this game.
Lets review what is relevant here, and what is not…
“Anything in game can be purchased with isk (real money)”: relevant
“I’m good at the game”: not relevant
“Newbs don’t know what to do”: not relevant
“This game is hard”: not relevant
“Omega better than alpha”: relevant
“Advantage to having multiple accounts”: relevant
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For some people, pay2win means golden ammo or other tools that can only be obtained with real life money. That was the norm when the term was coined.
All of eves items can be bought and used with a subscription only. You can just access things quicker using plex.
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That’s true, but what does it have to do with P2W? You can’t win yourself anything with ISK.
Personal experience, after I left the space-poor area, I lost interest in most PvE and ISK making activities, because I just have enough of everything. My win condition is now, having fun … and more ISK and even more SPs will not help me with that.
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heads in the sand…
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Maybe you should pull your’s out first.
Unless you are an alpha.
CCP’s follows a model known as minimum product viability in terms of venture management, one of the guiding concepts for product management is (derivative from the former) known as opiate economics.
Now read the following carefully.
There is no P2W on the level of individual players.
There is an increasing focus on commercial use of P2W elements on an account level.
As CCP’s CEO clarified last year they focus on accounts, they still somewhat track human demographics but account target demographics is the baseline priority.
On a group level a concept known as economies of scale was always a foundation element of EVE, in combination with beforementioned account + P2W element model this shifts an array of unintended consequences of effective P2W triggers to the group / organisation level within a game dynamic.
In other words:
On an individual player to player level there is no P2W.
CCP however deliberately emphasis behavioural triggers related to P2W on an account level.
CCP however stimulates group / organisation level adoption of P2W consumptive behaviour.
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@Shai’Hulud and others on the “of course it’s P2W”:
You are taking the same stance I see a lot of other people take, where if there is anything useful that can be purchased in a game, besides cosmetics and vanity items, they call it P2W.
You can certainly define things this way, but then it becomes a useless term. Every single pay game I am aware of gives certain advantages to paid subscribing members. Every single pay game I’ve every played has some way to buy something with real money, that is either useful, or can be converted to in-game currency that allows you to buy other useful things.
Therefore, as soon as a game has any useful payment system at all, in your terms, it becomes “Pay to win”. You are essentially saying that “paying in the game confers some advantage to those who pay, and any advantage is P2W”.
Which makes the phrase so general it’s irrelevant.
Actual pay to win, means I can buy something with real cash, that is obtainable in no other way, that gives me so much advantage that I almost cannot fail against you if you don’t have it. I bought an “I win!” button. Or at least, an “I have 50% advantage over you from this purchase” button.
Superweapons, 5x health points, auto-heal items, cash-only superclasses, potions of invulnerability: if these items are only available for cash $ purchase, then they are P2W.
“My character levels faster than you because my sub has a 50% XP multiplier”, “I get more inventory slots than you so I can gather more/better things and make more gold”, “I get a gold stipend every month so I can buy more items on the exchange”… these things are all paid benefits that amount to an advantage. That doesn’t make them P2W, unless you distort the term into uselessness.
There are several ways to distort this statement while keeping the core intact: allow players to sell these exclusive items in game market/ah. Then suddenly player rethoric about the issue will change to “but you can buy in on the market” implying it is available within the game while the origin of the item is still cash only.
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That is just an extremely simplified view of pay to win
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Perhaps. It is roughly as simplified as “any paid advantage at all = pay to win”.
But at least it is specific, meaningful, and useful in differentiating game design. “Paying gives you an advantage” is so generic as to be a useless definition.
The guy who equipped a cyno
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lol wut, if u don’t know how to use the ship then NONE of that even remotley comes into play. Simple as that, old eve sayings
- Just because you can fly it doesn’t mean you should
- If you don’t know how to use it, then don’t
- Don’t fly what you can’t afford to loose
- skill points don’t make a skillful pilot