One Way to Balance High-Security Space 🗡

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Lucas_Kell

What evidence do you have that it’s a 2018 player?

To quote myself:

@Scipio_Artelius

One interpretation would be…
…
…
There are other interpretations

[tutucox_Khamsi]

try lasers they are nice to

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

It’s a bit more nuanced than that, Lucas, but you do favour reductionist techniques in your exchanges. While such an approach can arrive at the nub of an issue, it is notorious for dismissing out-of-hand the genuine concerns of your co-respondents (about which you appear to care but little anyway).

You mention being harassed by gankers, but their responses are provoked by your own posts. you are outnumbered in many of the ganking threads to which you contribute, and I suppose that may feel overwhelming at times, hence your view.

As an example: Katageslasticism is one of the behaviours you accuse gankers and others of exhibiting. Yet the tone of some of your contributions to these boards shows that you are no stranger to the practice.

You also exhibit precisely the same negative hectoring behaviour of which you accuse your detractors.

@Lucas_Kell

a topic starts, I state my view, gankers engage in a coordinated harassment campaign and I stop responding. Kind sounds like the direct opposite of a good idea.

Perhaps it sounds to you like a bad idea because it requires confidence, maturity, and self-restraint.

You have the right to respond, not necessarily the duty to do so.

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Sasha_Nemtsov

Have you tried not responding, Lucas? That’s what I do.

Impossible, I think. He must always have the last word.

The whole targeted harassment thing is nonsense though as he goes after the charachter of the people he argues with also. It’s just ok when he does it because he does it less than they do or something like that.

@Sasha_Nemtsov

you do favour reductionist techniques in your exchanges. While such an approach can arrive at the nub of an issue, it is notorious for dismissing out-of-hand the genuine concerns of your co-respondents (about which you appear to care but little anyway).

100% all round well said.

The issue is one cannot have a reasonable discussion about the subject to be honest. Too many emotions are evolved and people cannot seem to extract themselves from the topic.

The thing I find strange though is the desire to make any subject about ganking. There are threads that have had a tenuous link to ganking at best that have become about ganking because certain prolific arguers have steered the conversation that way.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Im with this guy.

[Scipio_Artelius]

That sounds like coordination.

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Lucas_Kell

@Ferdiad_Silver

The issue is one cannot have a reasonable discussion about the subject to be honest.

Sure we can, but not when you start an engagement by misrepresenting my position which is what you and your buddies tend to do.

No I don’t. However you quite regularly chose to ignore the point of what someone is saying in favour of the most efficient way of tearing down what they are saying wether that’s attacking the individual, dismissing them “you are a ganker so your opinion doesn’t count” wether it they are or not. Sometimes just pretending they are saying something else then accusing them of having no back up or making unreasonable claims.

@Lucas_Kell

There are loads of discussions I’ve been in that aren’t about ganking and haven’t become about ganking.

Because you sometimes don’t it’s ok all the times you do?

@Lucas_Kell

@Sasha_Nemtsov

but their responses are provoked by your own posts. you are outnumbered in many of the ganking threads

Indeed, gankers do appear to be provoked by anyone disagreeing with them.

@Sasha_Nemtsov

you do favour reductionist techniques in your exchanges. While such an approach can arrive at the nub of an issue, it is notorious for dismissing out-of-hand the genuine concerns of your co-respondents

Thank you for immediately providing a fine example of what he is talking about.

[Gix_Firebrand]

@Ferdiad_Silver

Too many emotions are evolved and people cannot seem to extract themselves from the topic.

For me, it just comes down to he isn’t based in reality

I do not understand why people choose to play EVE, knowing what type of game it is, and then proceed to try and change it from the game it is, to the game they want.

When there are already other games out there that can fill their need.

@Lucas_Kell

often wildly misrepresenting my position

Mmhmm. So uh. Your position is that being AFK is a core tenet of playing EVE. So uh, that box tho?

@Lucas_Kell

A small group of people seem to harass anyone with views they dislike until the person stops posting.

You keep saying this, but can you even name someone who stopped posting due to gankers and actually said that?

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Gix_Firebrand

@Ferdiad_Silver

Too many emotions are evolved and people cannot seem to extract themselves from the topic.

For me, it just comes down to he isn’t based in reality

To be absolutely clear Gix, I don’t recall seeing you contribute to balanced discussion either. Saying you “roflstomped” someone after saying essentially “no you are wrong” isn’t really discussion.

I don’t really understand why Lucas even bothers responding to half of what you say.

Edit: though if I’m honest I probably should take my own advice and not respond to half of what Lucas say. Or half as much as I don’t really respond that often to him.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Lucas_Kell

@Ferdiad_Silver

The issue is one cannot have a reasonable discussion about the subject to be honest.

Sure we can, but not when you start an engagement by misrepresenting my position

This sometimes happens, to most of us.

Generally, a carefully considered stated opinion is welcome, and may be usefully countered or supported because it invites profitable scrutiny.

This is a sub-forum. Although it may at times resemble a chat vehicle, it is listed under ‘Communications Center’ (Top, Left).

‘Yep’ and ‘Nope’ are certainly communications, but they are hardly useful contributions to a discussion.

Of course, these are not your go-to responses to every post, but they are indicative of a mind less than willing to engage with those of others. It’s disappointing.

Suicide-Ganking is a minor playstyle in a single region of a niche MMO. If you (and/or CCP) believe that it negatively and disproportionately affects new players and/or the health of the game, then that is your/their view. Your suggested solution is to reduce or remove suicide-ganking in Highsec.

Griefing is a comparatively rare issue which can be demonstrated to be present in all areas of New Eden. If you (and/or CCP) believe that it is bad and wrong and should be eliminated, then that is your/their view. Your solution appears to be to reduce or remove suicide-ganking in Highsec.

There. I have stated what I understand to be your position. If I’m wrong, or have done you an injustice in so summarising your opinions, please forgive and correct me.

[Codename_Razorback]

@Scipio_Artelius

then prove it

You’re free to think what you may. I’m not giving up my main.

@Sasha_Nemtsov

Griefing is a comparatively rare issue

“Rare” you say, spend some time in “Why Was I Ganked” and get back to me.

---

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Gix_Firebrand

can you even name someone who stopped posting due to gankers

I can confirm that both @Dracvlad and @Githany_Red have permanently stopped posting in the forums. They now restrict themselves to commenting.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Codename_Razorback

You’re free to think what you may. I’m not giving up my main.

I thought it was:

@Most_Moliko

the old characters are bugged, i dont know why you would want them. Too many database conversions gone wrong.

The problem with lying that never happens when you just tell the truth is that you always have to worry about keeping the story straight and consistent.

There’s a glaring inconsistency here.

[Sasha_Nemtsov]

@Codename_Razorback

@Sasha_Nemtsov

Griefing is a comparatively rare issue

“Rare” you say, spend some time in “Why Was I Ganked” and get back to me.

Getting back to you, CR…

I said ‘comparatively rare’. This indicates my belief that, as a feature of the interactions of all players in the game, the incidence of griefing is, as I said, ‘comparatively rare’.

Doesn’t mean it isn’t significant for those who fall victim to it, of course.

[Altara_Zemara]

@Lucas_Kell

Indeed, gankers do appear to be provoked by anyone disagreeing with them. The reason I outnumber them is because I post once and have half a dozen people leap in an attack me, often wildly misrepresenting my position which then necessitates me correcting them, because when left all it does is attract more people who read the misrepresentation of my view and start having a go at that.

You simply have no idea the sheer degree to which that describes your own conduct here. The truth is, you just have to have the absolute last word…and wont let anyone else ever be right about anything even when they are. What you call ‘harrassment’ of yourself is simply other people getting fed up with that and calling you out on it.

You seem to think you have to explain your position again and again and again…and that restating it over and over makes it more correct…when in fact everyone understood it the first time and simply disagrees. The person who just wont let anyone else have any different stance is you.

[Codename_Razorback]

@Scipio_Artelius

The problem with lying

I’ve NEVER heard someone say “the old characters are bugged”, so I hope you’re not trying to connect that opinion to me.

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@Sasha_Nemtsov

‘comparatively rare’

Yes, percentage-wise it is. But, what’s “acceptable”?

[Altara_Zemara]

@Sasha_Nemtsov

Suicide-Ganking is a minor playstyle in a single region of a niche MMO.

Indeed. I mined for hours yesterday in a noob alt in a 0.5 system and never once saw a single ganker…though I was several times almost trashed by the local NPCs. I’d forgotten just how underpowered noob drones are against low highsec belt rats !

And this also explains why consistently there are more noobs killed on killboard via NPCs than by gankers. Yet another FACT that Lucas simply wont allow to be a fact. I don’t need to go by killboard…I have experienced why myself. Noobs go to 0.6, 0.5 systems and 3 or 4 rats show up ( as occurred yesterday with me…and I ran away when 4 turned up, which I would never do in my Altara account ) and get zapped by the rats.

[Codename_Razorback]

@Lucas_Kell

When people misrepresent my positions I feel it necessary to correct them, yes.

The forum trolls have one thing in common with each other. Their philosophy is simple:
Rules for thee and not for me.

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[Gix_Firebrand]

@Ferdiad_Silver

To be absolutely clear Gix, I don’t recall seeing you contribute to balanced discussion either. Saying you “roflstomped” someone after saying essentially “no you are wrong” isn’t really discussion.

I don’t really understand why Lucas even bothers responding to half of what you say.

Because how can you take him seriously bruv?

He’s made to be farmed for content

He lies endlessly, griefs, bots. He’s literally the antithesis of a good EVE player

Here’s the rub, the EVE I fight for is actually the game. Now CCP owns it, they can change it any time. However, certain changes will make EVE not EVE anymore.

Now if those do come down the pipe, I’ll most likely mosy on anyways. Unlike Lucas, I can quit vidya games

@Codename_Razorback

You’re free to think what you may. I’m not giving up my main.

Huh. A coward. Interesting

@Codename_Razorback

“Rare” you say, spend some time in “Why Was I Ganked” and get back to me.

I do all the time. Griefing doesn’t happen there.

@Aiko_Danuja

I can confirm that both @Dracvlad and @Githany_Red have permanently stopped posting in the forums. They now restrict themselves to commenting.

ROFL

[Ferdiad_Silver]

@Lucas_Kell

I try to engage reasonably but that’s never going to happen if the people on the other side are arguing against misrepresentations of my views. Sometimes it’s not their fault and they pick up what someone else present my view as then runs with it (like when people claim I want a 100% safe highsec) but usually it’s a pretty deliberate misrepresentation. So at that point of course I’m not going to take them seriously.

You might feel you are engaging reasonably and disagree entirely with my representation. However I feel that on many occasions you have not discussed with me specifically in good faith and that you have justified it effectively by saying others on your side of the debate don’t argue in good faith so I’m not going to take any of you seriously. If that is your stand point then there is no discussion, it is all propoganda. It only ceases being propoganda when there is discourse between both sides.

@Lucas_Kell

@Ferdiad_Silver

Because you sometimes don’t it’s ok all the times you do?

I disagree entirely with the claim that I do. Do you have any examples?

To be clear in my original comment I didn’t single you out because you aren’t alone in this. However immediately comes to mind is a three ways to improve the game thread which has multiple times devolved into the same old tired debate. Also if you go to the anti ganking thread it is riddled with threads that started out as something else and wind up derailing to becoming anti ganking threads and ultimately got merged.