Rabbit plexing is good for faction warfare

low-sec
pvp

(DrButterfly PHD) #1

I’d like to argue that Rabbit Plexing, the practice of running site timers and running away when an enemy comes, is good for faction warfare because it gives a way for newer players (or even older players who are simply outnumbered in a system) to push back against the enemy.

They also help to force groups pushing the system to spread out between the plexes to chase rabbit plexers out, rather than always blobbing up inside plexes.

Note: I’m in no way supporting bots, who are evil, and I do agree that there should be more rewards for players actively fighting over sites (with both the other faction and, more commonly, pirates) than for rabbit plexes.


(Bienator II) #2

I don’t think this particular game feature should entitle players to make offensive/defensive progress without player interaction - basically by continuously running away. If it would be pure pve and not influence FW sov then why the hack not - but that is not the case.

Not to mention that new players do have a lot of options even if “rabbit plexing” is nerfed. Firstly they could pick a quieter system without an active defense gang/blob in it. Secondly, teaming up with other new players/vets is more fun anyway and is going to help new players stick to the game.

Sitting in plexes in the same system side by side with the enemy and trading time 1:1 is kinda ridiculous and not fun for anyone. It feels like wasting time doing nothing. That should not be a requirement for a game feature.

splitting up is better in almost every case anyway. In any sov warfare scenario you will want to either plex multiple plexes in parallel or deplex multiple plexes in parallel. You can’t take a system by holding 1 plex at a time and watching the other two getting deplexed from within it. Splitting is going to happen anyway.

Being in a blob is safe but the nice thing about FW is that it often encourages splitting up your gang which leads to interesting situations.

edit: “rabbit plexing” is what kids call that these days? funny name :wink:


(DrButterfly PHD) #3

From my perspective, that IS a player interaction. I’ve had a lot of fun playing with a gang or even enemy solo pilot who greatly outmatched the ship I was in, just having the fun of the chase. Sometimes those chases ended in me being caught, other times I got away, and still others I let the hunter to an ally and then turned around to make the hunter the hunted.


(Bienator II) #4

i want to add that player activity in systems is the terrain of eve. No player should be entitled to be able to make solo plexing progress in a FW home system, the same way as no player in any other game is entitled to frag the boss right away. But if he/she wants to play hard mode - why not it can be fun.

But complaining about a blob feels always a bit weird to me in context of a sandbox - esp when you are trying to influence the docking rights of the very same blob.


(DrButterfly PHD) #5

I don’t think rabbit plexers can make solo progress in the presence of an enemy fleet. They’d just get caught or find all the plexes camped, surely?


(Bienator II) #6

you can still do that even with timer rollbacks or comparable balancing change. We are talking about entitlement of making progress in sov warfare, not about protecting your ship. You can still troll blobs, split them up and try to kill something as solo player in FW - the terrain with plexes is excellent for that. You get ship restrictions and deadspace pockets - blobs hate that.

of course they do. they sit 5 minutes in the plex and it is 5 minutes on the timer. Now you are going to trade time 1:1 with the plexer undoing what he/she did, while he is already sitting in another plex, in the same system or the system next to it. 0 player interaction, all what is happening is waiting in space.


(DrButterfly PHD) #7

Just put 1 guy in each plex, or chase the rabbit into a navy maulus.


(Bienator II) #8

that is exactly what is happening. The more alts in unfit ships you got the more progress you make. Bot-like unfit punishers deplexing large plexes, respawning in the very same system when killed or vets recommending new players to fit stabs and run as soon something appears on the close scan is the direct result of it (which leads to a vicious circle, because it firstly ruins the reputation of FW and secondly doesn’t even allow a new player to fight as soon he/she already fit stabs).

Game design wise running away is too powerful atm in FW sov warfare. And players became excellent at exploiting that little detail.


(Jin'taan) #9

Just for context, this thread was made as a result of this discussion thread in regards to the CSM Minutes.


(DrButterfly PHD) #10

That’s part of the context. Another thread’s discussion that drove me to post this one was this one.


(DrButterfly PHD) #11

By the way, I’m totally in favour of doing something to nerf stabs in FW sites. One thing I’d love to see is for sites to spawn rats of both factions depending on which side the timer is on, rather than always having rats of the defending faction.


(Tristan daCuhna) #12

Timer roleback is something that I have supported for a long time. If the pilot running the timer does not want to take the fight which appears to be coming their way that is their choice. But the lack of capsuleer presence on the capture point should start to return the plex to it’s original state.

Don’t even get me started on stabbed farmers. Thank you CCP for the Maulus Navy Issue and faction scrams…


(Daliena Talvanen) #13

This sounds good to me. It might seem a little… Odd when the two opposing faction rats just completely ignore eachother, but other than that, anything to chase out the completely unfitted (or maybe fitted with a few warp stabs and that’s it) buggers out of plexes.


(DrButterfly PHD) #14

You’d only have one of them spawn at a time depending on which half the timer is on.


(Daliena Talvanen) #15

That makes sense. And now that I think about it I could swear I saw that mentioned somewhere around these forums too, but can’t quite place it right now…

This is why one should not post before bed.


(Falran Estilien) #16

The plexes are broken and should just be removed. Each system should have mission agents that give offensive/defensive missions that move the contested bar and award you LP when completed. You’d have to actively do something to get LP and there’d be no more lame stuff like unfit frigates defensive plexing larges.

Also, the mission pockets should still be warpable but they should be acceleration gated to only allow faction warfare members in. One of the huge problems with plexes as they are now in FW space is 90% of the people that hunted me when I plexed in them weren’t even affiliated with the enemy faction. This ruins the entire point of kills being worth LP in faction warfare space and incentivizes people to just run away.


(DrButterfly PHD) #17

That sounds like too much PVE for a PVP mini-game (Aside: Is faction warfare a mini game? I can’t think of a better noun. Feature? Mechanic?).

Then who would the Minmatar fight?


(Nameira Vanis-Tor) #18

I think Pirates have a place in the warzone. I do however think they have life easy compared to FW pilots. In exchange for taking gate guns (as well as being protected by them) pirates get docking rights in all warzone stations and can use all high sec as long as they manage their security rating. Meanwhile FW pilots can engage certain pilots on gates but also become vulnerable to the same; can’t dock in x amount of the warzone and lose easy access to 50% of High Sec regardless of Sec status (also are engagable in their own High Sec by war targets) meanwhile also having to manage said status.

I think something should be done to balance this out a little. Suspect timers for neutrals entering plexes may be an easy start. Neutrals in lore have no benign purpose for entering an Empire military installation in a warzone after all and should be flagged as suspects by the Empires as a matter of course.


(Pestilen Ratte) #19

It is hard to get behind the condemnation of stabbed freaks as anti-PVP, when compared to the majority of FW heroes who only ever enter a plex with overwhelming superiority.

Why is blob ganking “elite pvp”, whereas using warp stabs is not? Both are cowardly, against the spirit of honourable combat. Both are lawful under the rules.

Our corp stopped FW because it was taking WAY too long to find fights. Assuming we could get into systems without getting blobbed by camps, we inevitably found that only blobs wanted to engage us. Likewise, solo pilots would flee our “blob” of 3 pilots, and they would have been stupid not to.

Eve Online is a blob game where the rules are geared directly, and very deliberately, against honourable conduct in battle. That is a simple fact, and not a pejorative accusation.

There are strong arguments to suggest that this is both realistic and desirable. Who wants to treat combat violence as a kind of noble undertaking? Isn’t that ethically wrong?

Clearly it is, which is why Alliance Tournament is so BAD. So evil and wrongheaded.

And so popular, of course.

Alliance Tournament is the smoking gun that shows anyone who is interested why Eve Online is not a space combat “game”. Look at the rules. Seriously.

Alliance is interesting and popular because… wait for it… “Fleets of moderate size and fairly matched power.”

Without this basic rule, there is no tournament. There are no spectators. There is no interest.

I tuned in to watch a bjorn bee twice roam a few days back and it very nearly caused me to unsubscribe. It was a travesty. Bjorn fit a shield Myrm. Then he proceeded to move from the place where it is easy to fit (market hub) to the place where it possible to find 1v1 fights (null). On the way he was gate camped. Outnumbered 20 to 1, at least he could take down a few pirates first, right? Wrong, because ECM. So everyone watched as he died without shooting back.

It is worth thinking about the ECM mechanic when used by blobs. It allows you to outnumber a person and even prevent them hitting back. Has there ever been a lower grade game mechanic in the history of mankind? Has there ever been a less honourable way of doing things in war gaming?

Think about it. The point is not to create a fun war game. The only point is to mock those who enjoy combat games, and to show them the very worst of human standards. Clearly, the senior staff at CCP have always enjoyed mocking those customers who claim to enjoy wart gaming. Otherwise, ECM would never have been invented, let alone allowed to evolve into what it is now.

Anyway, poor Bjorn Bee asked everyone to not discuss the ECM cancer because he is trying to make an entertaining content stream, and the predictable ECM is Cancer discussion is not new, not interesting, and not funny.

So then he got in another ship, same fit, and went looking for good fights. Same thing happened. Blob, camp, ECM. Utterly pathetic to watch.

So then he finally managed to stage a dual with someone he knew, and that was halfway interesting before he had to warp off because… see if you can guess?

A blob arrived, with ECM.

If Bjorn knows what is good for him, he will use his considerable intelligence and charm to make streams about PUB, or any other game where watching the mechanics in action is not futile and boring as hell. If he keeps on with Eve, he’s done as a content creator on the inter webs. You cannot polish a turd.

Anyway, this post is not intended to criticise Eve, merely to clarify what it is, and what it isn’t. it isn’t a space combat game. That is Alliance Tournament.

Eve Online is something else entirely.


(Patti 'Potato' Patrouette) #20

I agree, active rabbit plexing. watching d scan. using d scan/local to identify what ships are in other plexes in system, running away just in time to keep them chasing you etc (which keeps them busy with you) is pvp (player versus player) and its really good experience for hunting later on.
Also this isn’t my FW character before someone cries alt etc.