Regarding Senator Bellaron's Proposal

(Jason Galente) #92

You know, I agreed with you at first, but I don’t like people who double down on vehemently calling other people hypocrites for the status of their country failing to live up to its ideals, when, to my understanding and experience with the State, it has quite a lot of its own hypocrisies of the present. The State talks about prosperity, markets, and the rising tide lifting all boats, yet when I spent years there, I saw slum after slum after slum. Men working 16 hour days operating incredibly risky machinery, losing limbs, only to be tossed aside rather than offered pensions and medical care when they could no longer work because they were crippled.

Granted, this varies planet by planet and corporation by corporation, but one thing I can give the Federation credit for: there, these sorts of things are the exception, not the norm. While I can admire many things about the State, workplace safety, freedom to choose employer, and freedom to lobby for better working conditions and living standards leave much to be desired.

And I believe that makes you… right, a hypocrite. If you’re going to double down at throwing stones for ‘hypocrisy’, make sure your own house is secure.

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(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #93

For all that, did I say anyone outside the State should adopt the State system, however?

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(Jason Galente) #94

No, but the various hostile takeovers by State corporations imply that it’s not much of a choice anyway, whether warning is given or not.

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(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #95

Then that’s beside the point, because as far as I’m aware I’m not the one railing against that which exists in my own court now am I?

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(Jason Galente) #96

From my point of view, both the Federation and the State are irredeemably corrupt and hypocritical. The Federation is doing what you’re saying, and the State has its own form of hypocrisy: it pretends it is not engaging in the same thing the Federation does, just through trade instead of moral crusades. And for all the talk of the State about the vanity and degeneracy of the Federation, corporate executives are infamous about living lifestyles of such power and decadence and vanity that they make the Gallente look like abstemious Amarrian church boys. This reached a notorious peak before Heth cracked down on it, but wouldn’t you know, it’s back with a vengeance. The only noteworthy exceptions to this rule of vast hypocrisy amongst the corporate elite of the State regarding their own lifestyles would be Otro Gariushi, and, like it or not, Tibus Heth, albeit perhaps only with regards to the luxury and not with regards to the thirst for power.

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(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #97

No, the State just cut out the democratic middle man as inefficient and ineffective in recognizing the power of corporate institutions to enable cultural, political, and defense realities in the interests of the Caldari people.

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Off-Topic Thread
(Charles Cambridge Schmidt) #98

I wonder why we don’t see as many threads about the Federation on the IGS. Makes you think, y’know?

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(James Syagrius) #99

Well, from the look of things I would say that is a no my dear.

I am always amazed at how many things Caldari are the ‘sole’ experts on.

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(Rinai Vero) #100

Considering how horribly they’re all victimized by the Federation on a daily basis, having Federation threads derailed is obviously the price we pay for our myriad crimes against the Caldari people.

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(Charles Cambridge Schmidt) #101

lmfao

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(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #102

While I’m sure there are those who take political discussion personally enough to feel victimized by it, I never have.

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(Rinai Vero) #103

I was talking about all the Federals who are apparently reaching into your pockets all the time.

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #104

I found the statement in question a suitable hyperbole to draw further response, yes.

(Rinai Vero) #105

Perhaps you could find a suitably hyperbolic statement to draw further response on the original subject of capital punishment reform in the Federation and its implications for the wider cluster?

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(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #106

Sure:

The crux of the matter with the proposal presented by Senator Bellaron derives from the political arrangement of the modern Federal Union and the antecedent implementation of the Further Federation Act under the Heuromont Reforms and the creation of opt-out powers; particularly in this case as it applies to the traditional domains of the Jin-Mei.

The opt-out clauses have been critical in maintaining Jin-Mei membership within the Federation, as they retain a strong traditional cultural perspective which in some cases has been considered in contravention of the underlying moral and ethical considerations of the wider Federal mileu.

The application of exile as punishment for crimes, as has been brought to the public spotlight recently is one such instance in which what is considered a traditionally viable form of legal sentence for the Jin-mei is regarded as anathema by others within the Federation - Senator Bellaron among them.

The main point of contention with Senator Bellaron’s proposal centres not just on the nature of disallowing capital punishment in the Federation; but rather the enforcement of such an act. While the Federation retains powers under law to override signatory state opt-out provisos, they have never been enforced. This is because their overriding to apply Federal law sets a precedent. In the proposal in question: if the Federation overrides Jin-mei opt outs to enforce Federal laws proscribing capital punishment then it establishes the precedence to override opt-outs elsewhere on other matters and eroding the basis of the Heuromont Reforms.

As such, I forsee the matter being a fight not just over the nature of capital punishment, but rather the nature of member state sovereignty and autonomy as regards the constitution and charter of the Federation and in particular the opt-outs granted under the legal auspice of the Further Federation Act.

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(Jason Galente) #107

So do the Mannar, yet despite my half-assed efforts to drive a wrench into that whole business, the Mannar seem content to remain within the Federation despite the fact that, to my knowledge, literally nothing ever came out of the Villore Assembly’s petition to restore the Mannar homeworld, more than 2 years ago.

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(Auriga Menkalinan) #108

So do most member states and this is the defining virtue of our (far from perfect) social contract. Its preservation supports a defence against charges of cultural imperialism in pursuit of universal freedom. More prosaically, it also reduces the chance of civil conflict. It should be adjusted with the greatest of care.

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Off-Topic Thread
(James Syagrius) #109

Goodness, you are so right. How could I have forgotten?

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(Auriga Menkalinan) #110

Galactic Hour is reporting that Senator Bellaron’s proposal has made it onto the schedule for debate in the full chamber.

Best of luck to our esteemed Senators in their efforts to agree guidelines for the use of this new federalist power without creating divisive double standards.

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(Durant Aristide) #111

The whole chain of events has been interesting…to say the least. While I am certainly ambivalent towards a greater increase in Federal power over member states, I can see why some people would see the appeal of such legislation.

I, for one, support the ability of member states to allow the death penalty. Famous incidents such as the execution of Anvent Eturrer should certainly be a rarity, however. He was a special case, though, and an entirely warranted one at that. I would argue that anyone who did not feel a sense of satisfaction at the traitor’s death (a traitor who caused the deaths of thousands of Federal citizens) does the honor and legacy of those who perished in the ensuing State invasion into the Federation an immense disservice.

Those individuals who get queasy at the thought of killing another human being (when justified, of course) are allowed to feel such a way. However, do not dare to propose legislation which would inhibit the ability of those of us with the fortitude to handle matters in a way that will protect the Federation and Her way of life and Her people. To do so is incredibly selfish, and selfishness in a democratic union has no place.

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