Renewed Disruption Battleships & Black Ops

Something that’s fallen to the wayside in the past few years despite changes to battleships and the changes to Tiercide we’ve seen is the state of Disruption battleships, namely their lack of introduction beyond the initial battleship “tiercide” of the old laser Armageddon becoming the a drone and neutralizer battleship.

This comes up again because despite the balance focus being back on battleships (frig escape bays, manufacturing, etc), there has been 0 discussion on the dev’s part for actually going through with updating them. Only the Scorpion and Armageddon fall into this class, when every other ship class that’s been balanced or introduced has been released to all four races.

Imagine the uproar if they released Attack Battlecruisers or Tactical Destroyers for 2 empire races instead of 4.

With that said, I have some proposed reworked bonuses for each of the ships, including for Black Ops battleships, being the equivalent of t2 Recon ships for battleships, to reflect their natural progression in the skill tree.

-Dominix
Gallente Battleship bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to drone HP, and damage per level
7.5% bonus to drone optimal range and tracking speed

Role Bonus:
75% bonus to Heavy Warp Disruptor and Heavy Warp Scrambler optimal range and capacitor usage

The Dominix is already fairly powerful as a drone platform, so taking advantage of the fact that it doesn’t have any bonuses to turrets or launchers, giving it a bonus to heavy warp disruptors and heavy warp scramblers already falls in line with where it can best allocate its power grid. Moving the sensor dampening bonus to its drones makes it an optional choice for secondary ewar, keeping its power curve for a t1 battleship down, and forcing it to choose between damage and ewar without sacrificing mid slots.

-Typhoon
Minmatar Battleship bonuses per skill level:
7.5% bonus to Target Painter strength
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile, and Torpedo launcher rate of fire

Role Bonus: 25% bonus to Stasis Webifier Optimal range

The Typhoon already benefits from a using a target painter, so it would be sensible to swap its application bonus for a bonus to target painter effectiveness. I wanted to keep the range bonus to webifiers comparatively small, but useful within the range of torpedoes, while still providing a useful fleet ewar ability.

-Scorpion
+1 launcher, -4 turret hardpoints
Caldari Battleship bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to kinetic Heavy Missile, Torpedo, and Cruise missile damage per level
25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer and ECM Burst optimal range and falloff per level

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to ECM Target Jammer, ECM drone strength

The Scorpion has long languished without any bonus to damage, and locking a damage bonus to kinetic akin to the Drake I think best balances its power curve in relation to the other missile ships.

-Armageddon
Amarr Battleship bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to drone HP, damage, and Tracking Disruptor Drone effectiveness per level
7.5% bonus to Energy Neutralizer & Energy Nosferatu optimal range and falloff per level

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Energy Neutralizer energy usage and cycle time

The Armageddon is already in a fairly solid place, but giving it a minor but useful bonus to neutralizer effectiveness helps it scale better as the go-to t1 ship for energy neuts without stepping on the Bhaalgorn’s uses.

For Black Ops battleships, although they’ve received a buff to their resistances, they haven’t had their bonuses altered since their inception. Although they serve a vital role with Covert jump bridging, I think their hull bonuses need to be overhauled.

-Sin
Gallente Battleship bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to drone HP, damage, and Sensor Dampener drone effectiveness per level
10% bonus to drone optimal range and tracking per level

Black Ops bonuses per skill level:
20% bonus to Heavy Warp Disruptor and Heavy Warp Scrambler optimal Range and Capacitor usage
125% bonus to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices

Role Bonus:
• Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
• No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
• Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
50% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue

This is more or less scaled in line with being a straight upgrade to ewar effectiveness, in line with the ecm strength scaling of the current Scorpion and Widow.

-Panther
+6 missile launcher, -5 turret hardpoints
Minmatar Battleship bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to Target Painter strength
5% bonus to Heavy, Cruise, & Torpedo Launcher rate of fire

Black Ops bonuses per skill level:
7.5% bonus to Stasis Webifier optimal range
125% bonus to ship velocity when using cloaking devices

Role Bonus:
• Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
• No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
• Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
50% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue

Receiving a slightly larger, but not oppresive, range increase to its webifiers lets it scale with the Typhoon, while providing valuable bonuses to target painters.

-Widow
Caldari Battleship bonuses per skill level:
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile, and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer and ECM Drone strength

Black Ops bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile, and Torpedo max velocity
125% bonus to ship velocity when using Cloaking Devices

The widow is in a fairly decent spot, but suffered greatly from the ECM changes. Moving around its bonuses and adding ECM drone effectiveness helps bring it closer to its former glory, without being as hideously oppressive.

Role Bonus:
• Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
• No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
• Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
50% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue

-Redeemer
+250m3 for Drone Bay
Amarr Battleship Bonuses per skill level:
10% bonus to Large Energy Turret Damage per skill level
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret Tracking Speed per skill level

Black Ops bonuses per skill level
50% bonus to Heavy Combat Utility Drone HP, optimal range, and effectiveness per skill level
125% bonus to ship velocity when using Cloaking Devices

Keeping its drone bonuses strictly limited to Combat Utility drones, the Redeemer retains its role as the gunship among the black ops ships, and giving it a fairly unique role with the usage of combat utility drones.

EDIT: given the popularity of the idea to give them covops cloaks, how would the community feel about an alternate proposal of adding another t2 blops variant with covops cloaks and ewar, but no covert jump bridge? They’d scale accordingly with recons, possibly giving current blops dscan immunity.

As always, BLOPS BS should just use a covert cloak.
Especially with the price tag and build complexity on them now.

4 Likes

I agree as well, but focusing on their ewar effectiveness is a good place to start for talking about realistic balance without having to fuss about power creep too much.
The Nestor’s description and inability to use a covops cloak despite the other SoE ships kind of solidifies the idea that battleships are simply too large to use covops, so it’s at least addressed.

That said, I’d also be for blops using covops cloaks, but having a difficult time with it; like having to eat 100 cpu for one without the reduction bonus the others get. Short of that, adding another t2 ewar variant that uses covops and giving the current ones dscan immunity would make the most sense to me, given how they’d scale with recon ships that way.

After the industry updates battleships were cited for change along side T3’s more befitting their cost.

  • Ships will be rebalanced as needed to ensure they provide value commensurate with their price in the new industrial landscape (T3 Cruisers and T1 Battleships were in particular called out). (42:30)
1 Like
  • Nice focus on battleship specific modules for gallente

I suggest changing minmatar bonuses from target painters to stasis graplers falloff range
Something like 15% per level for typhoon and 30% per level for panther

  • Sensor Dampener drone effectiveness bonus is useless. Sensor dampener drones are useless because of way stacking penalties work

I suggest ignoring dampener part of e-war for battleships.

  • Combat Utility Drone bonus is useless. Combat Utility Drones are useless. Pack of 5 is equivalent of T1 Heavy Neutralizer. Pack of 5 combat drones is equivalent of 2 T2 Mega Pulse lasers on close range ammo with 2 navy heat sinks.

I suggest making Redeemer drone boat or adding BIGGER (300-500%% at lvl 5) bonus to Combat Utility Drone effectiveness.

1 Like

-I do agree sensor damps have a bit of an issue being useful for anything larger than a cruiser to use, even with the drones. I’ll adjust the domi bonuses appropriately.

-Stasis webifier range bonuses are extremely powerful for pvp, and so limiting their usage to more expensive and specialized t2 and t3 ships is ideal power scaling. Having the typhoon keep its bonuses focused on the target painters is consistent with the frigate and cruiser ewar platforms, and helps out its damage application as well as others in a group, as smaller minmatar ewar boats are wont to do.

-Redeemer drone bonuses have been updated

I suggest adding stasis grappler bonuses instead of stasis web bonuses (you already added 25% web range bonus to typhoon).

Main reasons for this is that grapplers are battleship+ module and there are no ships with bonus to grapplers.

25% webifier range bonus results in 14 * 1,3 * 1,25 = 22,75 resulting range with 60% web strength
or with skirmish links 27-30
50% grappler falloff bonus results in 4+12 * 1,5 = 22 resulting range at 45% web strength
150% grappler falloff bonus results in 4+12 * 2,5 = 34 resulting range at 45% web strength

PS grapplers are not affected by bonus links