This pretty quickly stretched from “Hi I don’t really like this mechanic because…” to a really long because.
But as I hinted at in some of my earlier answers, I think a more significant lever to improve FW lies in a VP rework.
That said, this thread-hijack is over. Until someone inevitably asks a question.
Maglor. If you can give me any good reason why a DST, or any other ship, should have the ability to perform an unlockable maneuver like the cloak+warp trick during gate travel, besides it being something ‘good to have’, then I will concede that you are right in your interpretation. You can’t, as this has been declared not an exploit by CCP and its principle use functions in the same way the gate slide was used. To avoid being caught. If you don’t understand how some bugs benefit the player base on a whole, there is no argument.
Now what if CCP introduced some kind of ship scan that was performed the moment you decloak and, as a result, kills the warp+cloak trick. How do you think people will react?
It’s an issue. If it’s linked to the WCS changes it needs to be looked at again - That’s simply changed the meta to Ventures again, rather than making people fit properly.
Ventures were predicted well before the change landed when CCP did not clarify wether their native warp core strength would also invalidate their being able to activate acceleration gates.
@Tristan_daCuhna I tried to drop it.
So, firstly this is a straw man. You’ve stopped discussing the slide and are representing it with a more accepted and universally familiar form of near complete safety; although I don’t personally like MWD+Cloak it is a combination of existing mechanics in an (I believe) initially unintended manner.
Gatesliding is or was to the best of my understanding associated with the invulnerability timer present on exiting warp, which is typically broken when you move. For it not to do so when you activate an acceleration gate is an entirely different issue than separate modules adding to and subtracting from your velocity.
My final point is that neither of us are qualified to decide what’s best for the playerbase as a whole. I’ve expressed my thoughts on the matter and explained as best I can why I think gatesliding was a destructive mechanic.
Amidst telling me that my justifications are invalid and constructing a desperate straw man. You made a few points of your own.
That every FW player who wants to plex should have the guaranteed ability to bypass an unlimited number of third parties. You did not elect to explain why.
That people should engage you in the place and manner you wish them to. Also no explanation as to why.
This point I agree with you on, but it supports my perspective rather than your own. The non-FW actors in both warzones are potential content for FW entities and the entire premise of your argument is that FW players must be protected from them. Again without clear explanation.
Condensing as much of my own argument as I can into a short summary for anyone joining at this point. There is no convincing reason I’m aware of, other than Tristan likes gate sliding for a invulnerability timer bug to be reinstated. It’s something that removes content rather than adds to it. And anyone living in lowsec can tell you we don’t have much to spare.
All you need to look at as a clear example of impact is that gate camp in the system you yourself mentioned. Go and see what is there on a weekend and tell me how many times have YOU taken part in breaking that camp. With the use of cans and peiple orbiting, the only thing that can make it through (and not always!) is a cov ops.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that now navy cruisers can get locked out of the plex and have to deal with anything from a blops fleet to a titan being dropped on them for fun, where as before they could slide and take what could likely be a better fight inside.
I don’t think you quite understand the limitations and trolling that this opens up now.
With respect to Tama, more times than I can count when I was in Drunk’n’Disorderly in gallente militia. I’m reasonably sure one of those times ended in snuff dropping supers and a counterdrop from us (long enough ago I’m certain about Tama, not about the gate being involved).
You still refuse to answer me on this. Why are you entitled not to be tackled outside a plex? Given the mention of titans and blops as apex plex predators, I’m not certain you have the grasp of game mechanics to support your own argument. At this stage responses from you have deteriorated to poorly formulated aspersions on my understanding of the game, I’ll keep one eye on this thread for anything substantive or specific. But I’m done attempting to assuage this ill conceived doom-saying.
Before you think you can teach me about game mechanics, read this thread and understand that most of these kills are off a factional warfare acceleration gate.
When game mechanics and changes favor one person with an alt to such a degree that they can disrupt the game for hundreds of players on a weekly basis, then you might understand that this is not a good thing at all for player retention.
According to Zkill that is 368 since 2:11 UTC January 19th last year. I assume prior killmarks were achieved with a different character. It’s not a bad meme but to put it in context, Pynekastoh the only place he does this has better than 2.5k kills in an average month (unusually busy months having over 5k). He’s not even especially relevant to total kills where he does it, much less across a wz. Balancing game mechanics around that would be the worst kind of stupid.
But going back to the topic at hand. Justify your point of view, because the only discussion that Hel is relevant to is super/capital balance and the safety of carriers and supercarriers in deadspace. If you’re gonna throw more irrelevant points please actually leave the hyperbole out of your numbers, because I do fact-check.
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Maybe you don’t understand that those 500 kill marks are JUST from pilots who take the bait outside of a plex. Don’t you see that it will be different now? How many more kills can a pilot rack up in a busy system like this? You think an alpha has the resources to fight back against that? You think blops will not cloak and do the exact same thing, blap and cloak back up again? All you need now is an interceptor and a hurricane to make any assault on your system hurt for anyone trying to take ANY plex. The fight has changed places and you lack the imagination to realize that it is a huge shift in the meta. Forget using the gates in a risk free way, the complex gates are now a trap. We went from relatively safe for cruiser and below to engage similar class ships to being vulnerable to the same instalocking gang while aligning on the gate even as a small ship.
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Yes this is disapointing. Be it a bug, whatever, tactics evolved with it in mind, and added to the uniqueness of FW.
Faction Warfare - like anything in this Sandbox - deserves more feedback and thought as many have said above. For years many players have been loyal to this arena within the game, and some CCP team needs to give it a redo.
It took years for one simple fix - the removal of warp stabs to take affect. A whole cottage bot industry flourished during this period of neglect - so sad.
Hopefully our newly elected rep will actually listen to the players that actually play FW and get some kind of traction - some actual changes.
Ode to the Gate Slide…
Rovain
GM’s replied to the support ticket. They have no information on the subject and as such advised a bug report be sent to the dev team for investigation. This has been done.
I posted it in the CSM balance channel a week ago. CCP know about it, I also posted it in the bugs channel too.
Ultimately gate sliding was a bug or at least, unintended behavior, it has now been fixed, probably as a consequence of the WCS ban on gates. Even if CCP could theoritically rollback to how it worked before, it may require removing WCS restrictions.
Sliding allowed you to fight with the ship restrictions in play, and made things less of a clusterfuck when 2 FW fleets wanted to engage each other with 3rd parties present, which was especially useful for new FCs that didn’t have to deal with all the possibilities in eve’s sandbox. It does however, open up new possibilities and guerilla tactics against FW groups with little coordination from the smaller side too. So I feel like there are pros and cons to either side. It can be a good thing to have new rules for something that has been played out as long as FW has.
Either way, keep posting feedback.
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It will be a tough call between gate sliding and maintaining the ban on stabs.
If WCS had been properly banned by making a ship with a Warp Core Strength higher than 1 unable to run the timer and ineligible for LP payout if on grid when someone else captures the timer. Rather than using the gate to perform the check for WCS, the issue with Gate Sliding would not have happened and WCS (and ships with an inherent bonus to Warp Core Strength) would be useless for all plexes including the large, instead of just the Novice, Small and Med.
That said, it’s good to see the issue has been raised and hopefully we’ll get an answer either way.
I think this is my entire angle in why it was a beneficial bug.
I question the need for a gate at all when the option to camp the gate is going to be an irresistible tactic for every side involved, simply because it’s easier, and completely sidesteps the entire idea behind more balanced fights.
You might consider the meta as being stale, as it was, but you ignore the amount of content attrition warfare provided for cheap and accessible ships. The new guys absolutely love it and growing FC’s are more than willing to lead a dozen or more throw away ships into the fray.
This change has direly hurt a unique style of play found nowhere else, as any group now no longer must contend in this way with superior numbers, but with just a handful of high alpha and fast locking ships. Before, the smart bombing battleship was ignored and the new guys can slide on through. That isn’t going to be the case anymore.
You lose so much in exchange for fixing what constituted as a annoyance. And not entirely either, as Ventures have resumed their place as the best stabbed afk farming ship. Rolling back the change so that the ship scan happens somewhere else or, as Tristan said, positive warp core is ineligible for ticking the counter down by itself, is a much better approach. You would at least preserve a unique style of play, than invite a fresh one that isn’t all that new, tbh.
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Raising also a glass to its memory !
I also mourn it : the great thing thing with FW is that you can find different types of content and fights. It’s like each system is in fact fact several systems, several arenas, several types of pvp spaces.
The frigate fights are just awesome and create an environment where you die ten times a day without regrets and without hurt for your wallet.
It also creates an environment where you can choose to chew more than you can eat when seeing something bigger in d-scan.
The passing of gate-sliding has two consequences : it kills the frig fights in novice because one of your teammates can just enter the plex and you camp the entrance with oversized ships to be sure your teammate won’t be disturbed.
It also leads to boredom when you are inside plexing or deplexing. The other day I was running a novice when a confessor came to camp the entrance. It was a disappointment to see it on d-scan : for the next ten minutes, I was then sure no frig would come to fight me. So no thrill, no rush.
Some people say FW need more incentives to bring bigger ships and they are probably right. Those already exist with citadels and IHub bashing. Maybe FW need more content like this but it shouldn’t threaten the heart of plexes’ content. It should be an extra-mechanism, not something replacing what already exist.
We are low-sec, not null-sec with their F1 blobs and capital escalations.
Furthermore for newbros, novice plexes ( even if they already mean facing op faction frigates like the Dramiel or the Worm) push them to specialize in frigs as a first ship and quickly have a solo fighting chance instead of simply playing tackle or target painting in a bigger fleet. They die but they die well.
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