Aside from the Skiff being tankier, 3k larger ore hold, and a lot more expensive, what is the benefit of the Skiff over the procurer? I am not sure if the cost outweighs the benefits.
the significantly higher tank, the larger ore hold, the larger drone hold and higher drone bandwidth, the longer targeting range, the higher sub-warp and warp speed, more slots, more PG/CPU, an additional 10% reduction in harvester cycle time, the even greater ease to protect it from attackers with Rorqual or Orca remote shield boosts, etc.
Both are good. Its worth the training for the skiff in my opinion. Its a fine ship indeed, and good bait as well.
you have a compare tool in the game. Use it.
I think it’s pretty obvious he’s asking whether it’s worthwhile to train into the tech 2. Far be it from these forums to resist pointless, easy rudeness though.
From a purely economic point of view, the Skiff is over priced. The Procurer provides better value - especially in dangerous space where the risk of losing it is high. That said, the Skiff is a better ship - just not 20 times better!
It’s not. Many people don’t know there is a compare tool and how it works.
if he or she does alot of mining the skiff is worth every isk. It has a the best tank for an exhumer. Can fend off suicide ganks and has great yield & cycle time with command boosts. yes a hulk or covetor mines more but pops fast. cargo is better than a hulk and half the size of a mack. Mack’s tank isnt all that great either
but, as usual, OP’s question is too general
is it worthwhile for whom? where? NS? LS? Hi sec? wh? to mine ice? normal ore? moonbelts? with porpoise or rorq for boosts? in fleet or solo? with pve dps ships killing rats or do you want to tank npcs ? etc
in eve, everythg is situational. So it is obviously worthwhile for some players, whereas it won’t be for others in different settings
10 times. After you are done fitting that procurer is likely to be somewhere around 35-50M isk.
Wow, thank you to those that gave me their opinion on my question. Then the others…
Yes, I have used the compare tool. I noticed that most differences were minute aside from the price. I am not sure if that response was a troll or try to be rude. The compare tool was the first thing I did, thank you. There are a few things like an extra mid slot and extra drone storage that are not shown since I can only compare 10 things. The proc has the same bonus listed aside from the exhumer bonus so I am only showing the skiff.
My question was not too general and had nothing to do with worthwhile. Mine was specifically
Ultimately, my question remains the same. Does the cost outweigh the benefits? I can fly both but will not always have boosts available. Proc costs about 18 mil in Jita and 10/20 BPCs are like 200k so it doesn’t take much mining to replace a lost one as where the skiff is about 247 mil and I cannot currently use a BPC to make one. So, to those that are more experienced with mining, does the cost outweigh the benefits of it? I have midrange mining skills and not sure how long it would take me to recoup the cost and start seeing actual benefits of the skiff.
I know know the cov/hulk mine quicker but I prefer the tank of the proc/skiff. I am not overly worried that I would lose my ship but the danger is always there. Do most others continue to mine with barges or go up to exhumers? I am mining to build ships for my corp, not to sell ore on the market.
click the cog wheel, then “only show attributes that differ”. Then you can compare the attribute to find out which ones are relevant.
Like always, it depends on the context. A correct balance in Eve, would be that in no case ONE specific ship is always better than another, so that each ship can have its niche.
In the end it depends on your cost and benefit formula.
and our answers remain the same: it depends on the context
a skiff seems to mine 25% more than a procurer
let’s take two opposite examples
- you mine r64 moon ore in null sec, with a perfect quick response fleet, super umbrella, in a very well defended pocket where reds never come => the risk of losing the skiff is almost equal to zero. Then you increase your mining efficiency by 25%. Then the difference in cost will be quickly (a few hours?) covered by the benefits
- you mine in a dangerous place, and think you will lose a skiff 4 times per week: yes the cost outweighs the benefits
or you mine in a place where the isks/h ratio is very low due to poor ore, npcs, code, what you want: then the higher cost will be covered after several weeks.
so, since you don’t want to give precisions on the context, our answer remains the same
When you look at the prices of hulls then yes, skiff looks WAY more expensive. Except that they both cost roughly same to fit and once you do fit them you can add another 20-30M on top of hull price.
And once you do you find out that skiff is about 5-7x as expensive as procurer.
yeah man. Cause code ganks poperly fitted skiffs left and right… even properly fitted procurers are left untouched over 99.9% of time.
this was totally theoric example.
as when i said “a perfect quick response fleet… the risk of losing the skiff is almost equal to zero”: have you ever seen a QRF for a tackled skiff???
i tried to illustrate the importance of the context in eve for OP. Nothing more.
Yes, I was referring to the hull, not a fitted ship. The fittings are similar and are a lot closer in price than the hulls.
I mine in a wormhole with no super umbrella or response fleet. I am careful but there is danger every time you undock regardless of how careful one is. I try and mine when our hole is active with corp members or when there is only one hole and I can leave an alt on the hole to listen for hole fire. If I am lucky, I have an orca or porpoise boost but many times I don’t.
My specifics are general because unless you are in a huge alliance, it is fairly similar for everyone. I don’t have to worry about CODE ganks like hi-sec but I have to worry about visitors to our hole. Sometimes it is only an astero or other exploring ship just mapping holes and looking for relic sites. Other times it is a scout looking for activity to bring in 5-10 people. It can be any given thing on any given day which brings me back to my original question, are they worth the cost. I am not a hardcore miner who mines hours at a time. I may mine with 3 miners for 30-60 mins or I may mine a couple of hours. I make good money in my hole so I can afford them, just not sure I will get enough benefit from them to make them worth while. I don’t really sell the ore so I am not making a profit from it. So guess if I mine 1000-4000 more ore per hour, it probably isn’t worth the cost. If I am mining around 5000 or more than with procs, it may be worth the cost.
Skiff if you are just comparing straight up tank and mining speed. If you are mining with a boost from command ship those bonuses will just be multiplied that much more. Tech 2 ships are pretty much always worth it.
If you plan to go into lowsec or wormhole and dont want to risk the expense of a skiff, the procurer works fine.
Procurer with a Higgs rig. You mine aligned to an escape BM. Here the higher base speed of the Skiff is a drawback - because you will be moving away from the asteroid sooner.
Mining drones are 25m, so you are not restricted by the lower bandwidth of the Procurer. (Ice need 50, but that’s not your situation). Carry a set of ECM lights as a dice roll. Because the Procurer has three rigs, you still have two for shields. (or empty or mining drone medium augs)
In terms of tank - the difference is, if you get caught - it just takes longer to kill you. (unless you have back up, but it not mentioned). The final other difference is the third low of the skiff which is usually MLU2 for a 9% yield gain.
I am assuming that if you need to manage Sleepers, you have a combat hull to swap into, instead of replying on the barge/exhumer drones?
I guess you are mining moon ore.
In that case, whenever you have an orca ready, go with a covetor. you can maj click the orca fleet bay and move your ore there ; you can also add T1 ship in the orca to defend against enemies.
If you feel safe with your friends, go with a hulk. Whenever there is no more safety, go with a covetor again.
If there is no orca ready : go with a retriever. the time to warp back to the insta, deliver roids in structure, and warp back to roid is long enough to make retriever better than covetor.