I paid money and now I have buyers remorse.
I call that a loss.
You’re winning so much that you don’t even exist in the game.
I think he’s trying to twist it around to present Eve as not being P2W.
The first 3 questions pertain to buying / selling skill points which, contrary to popular belief, is actually P2W.
The last 2 questions pertain to buying / selling Plex for game subscription which, contrary to popular belief, is actually not P2W.
All the answers can be found back in Eve’s Golden Years…
People have put skill points in something they no longer want or use and would like to reallocate them.
That was the original idea for skill extractors / injectors when they were first presented. They were originally intended to be for personal use only, not to be a trade item.
People know players want skill points so want to be able to extract theirs and sell them to make money in game.
That option only became apparent after CCP mutated the original plan for skill extractors / injectors by turning them into a trade item, knowing full well that extractors could only be bought directly from their cash shop, thus eliminating the in-game player market.
People want to buy skill points but they don’t want to fund players that run skill farms or dislike the extractor/injector system.
If people wanted a skilled character, they could purchase them from the character bazaar which is actually an extension of the in-game player market.
People have a lot of time to play computer games grind in game content for in game currency and don’t have much money in real life but want to sub for the full game.
Which can be done with PLEX.
People don’t have much time to play computer games but have lots of disposable income and want to buy in game money.
Which can be done with PLEX.
The difference between the top 3 questions and the bottom 2 questions is the in-game player market. Skill extractors, SP packages, special offers, etc can only be purchased directly from CCP’s cash shop. That bypasses the in-game player market creating a short cut from already established game mechanics to fast track character development. That is Eve’s P2W…
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What I find absolutely crazy is that they somehow jump from that there is a desire for SP reallocation or SP catch up for new player to “therefor it’s required to be in the shop”. No it’s not.
It could all perfectly well be added as a new game mechanic. Let new players learn the core skills by playing the game (achievements, special missions, …), not waiting for an SP trickle. Make SP reallocation consume a rare drop item. Things like that… I’m not married to an idea, this is just to show that it’s completely feasible to have all this things without the cash shop.
To put them in the cash shop is probably the most lazy and greedy possible solution to any of this problems, and It’s just completely nuts that people defend this.
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Yes, what could/should CCP be doing instead of selling plex and skill points?
And yet…the fact that some have advantage in having more TIME available to grind is still just completely ignored. As it has been throughout the entire thread.
Being able to buy PLEX is the ONLY way to be able to make up that time differential.
I’m not pro or anti P2W, just trying to make sense of the argument. I am too old to care and have a 99% resistance to marketing bollocks.
I don’t see EVE as pay to win correct, not because I’m mentally challenged and don’t want to see it. I’m defo on the P2Lose bench but interested in general in the whole argument and I think its a healthy discussion to have.
I think people forget that CCP do have bills and wages to pay. They need money, like it or not. CCP need options to make that money. We the players can help them by saying “NO” which we have done with the mining barge sale and more recently the combat booster. CCP pulled them. So we know what we don’t want them to do, but what do we want them to do instead?
Making injectors/extractors BOP would be an option for sure. There should be a way to reallocate skill points in EVE and it would end the skill farms but not everyone wants to buy another character. I only have one and only want one so I would have to buy another one for isk off the bazaar, then buy extractors/injectors from CCP as they wont be on the market or tradable anymore and then pull the points out of my newly purchased char and inject them into my main. Then what? Biomass the empty husk? ■■■■ that amount of effort. Selling a nice blue tub of skill points that is dumped into the unallocated bucket is so much simpler. The players that do run skill farms, extensive at this point, would sh*t bricks.
PLEX, So that seems to do its job then right? Can we move PLEX out the P2W discussion now? That then leaves the primary candidate for P2W in EVE Online in the hands of skill points.
Many are available now in the NES for PLEX. Is that a good way to go? Does that eliminate the…
…because I am not sure it does, it puts much more pressure on the PLEX market.
I still maintain you don’t need these, while I do agree they are clear advantageous shortcuts, over all in the grand scheme of EVE online they offer no genuine benefit that puts your capabilities over someone else’s.
Did our trolly friend call you mentally challenged because you don’t agree with him?
Wow.
I think the point a discussion becomes about mental health, unless about mental health, it needs to be nudged back on track.
Like with politics and religion right? 
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When I say CCP’s cash shop, that also includes the NES which is an extension of CCP’s website. The fact that you can use PLEX there instead of paying cash to their website still doesn’t change the fact that extractors, SP packs, etc, are still P2W items.
And to remove all doubt, P2W in Eve is all about taking a short cut which bypasses the already established in-game mechanics for character progression.
Despite being a Trade Item, the reason I include Skill Extractors is because it’s only available from CCP, players can’t produce / manufacture them and they don’t drop as loot or reward from NPC’s.
Actually, Eve makes CCP a lot of money. Problem is they keep investing that money into other projects which eventually get shut down.
And since they want to keep investing into more projects, they need to make more money so they monetize SP’s and make items soulbound, basically bypassing the player market which forces players to buy direct from them.
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There is no established in game mechanics for character progression, it has been in a constant state of change since way before my time. I believe the removal of learning skills whatever that was about was the start of continuous iterations to the acquisition of skills online. The skill que was extended past 24 hours, then extended again and again, there is remaps, learning implants, accelerators, no more skill loss from clone upgrades or T3 cruisers. Constant change with possibly more down the line with talk of removing attributes entirely.
And as we keep coming back to having more skill points than someone else doesn’t make you win the game, just gives you a limited time advantage. All skills cap at level 5. If you get to level 5 in 5 minutes or a month you still max out like everyone else. There is no pay to get level 6 which would be a clear undefendable P2W mechanic.
Can’t argue with that eh. 
+1
That’s the sad truth unfortunately.
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Yes there is, that’s the skill queue training which takes a set amount of time per level to train. The various options you listed only enhance it. What they don’t do is completely bypass that mechanic.
Skill injectors, SP packs, special offers, etc are all shortcuts that bypass the already established skill training mechanic.
And now we’re back to this old yarn, still hung up on the word ‘Win’.
Also for the flip side of your statement, having more experience in-game doesn’t make you win either.
Unfortunately there’s a big difference, using injectors, SP packs, etc, is P2W, a fast track short cut which gives a big advantage in creating a specific role, such as a fast tackle or covert scan scout alt, etc.
Now you’re just being completely obtuse, reaching for stuff in an attempt to prove that Eve is not P2W.
And since that’s the route you wanna take, we’re done now… Especially since this is no longer a discussion.
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They could add content to acquire this things in the game
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What if you have time and money?
Do you actually have any numbers on what percentage of use for this pay2win mechanic are by people who dump money on a game they don’t have time to play? I’m pretty sure that people who already spend half their life in this game are far more incentivized to dump even more money in.
You can argue that people can jump ahead either way…but jump ahead of what ?
In a game in which there are already people with 20 years worth of SP, and who own trillions of ISK, is the comparison of two random people joining on the same day really a valid one ? People are not joining a level playing field in the first place.
Personally I have never used skill injectors. I find the cost absurd. Though I can understand the frustration with an interminably long skills queue…especially on a second or third Omega where one already knows the ships and fittings and how to fly them but has to wait for the skills.
They are jumping ahead if him.
And I’m not sure how many times you ignore the answer to your complain. Just because money people spend on EVE to advance their characters don’t matter in the big picture of things, doesn’t mean that what CCP put into the game are not pay2win mechanics.
For the individual player those mechanics actually have an impact. They can chose between waiting half a year for their desired skills to learn with the SP trickle, or they can spend money to get them right away. It’s a typical pay2win time gate you find in basically all trash mobile games.
I know the SP system was always a trickle, it wasn’t an issue when you could not bypass it with money. But injectors changed this and now it resembles a typical pay2win time gate. How that came to be doesn’t matter in the end.
As long as people like you justify that crap, CCP will gladly expand their monetization further. We already see the first instances of gold ammo, it’s just a matter of time. And you will be here and defend it.
It’s delightful that you are still crying about me. I bet you even read my posts.
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I agree, but how and what? Skill points? PLEX drops? Extractors or injectors from LP?
The last thing I want to see in EVE for example would be something like skill points for ship kills, the day EVE becomes like wow or many other grinding for XP games I think we will have lost the battle entirely.
Would you like to see that? What are you proposing?
Yes but so what ? I see people who have bought entire characters…which is a far bigger matter than just the odd skill injector. I presume ( though I am not sure of it ) that they buy the character name too…which then creates a true unfairness in them gaining the killboard of kills they never did. Someone tell me that doesn’t happen.
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