Pay to win or not a pay to win?


(NanoCube) #1

I am returning player, one of those before PLEX, and it come to my attention that I can now by Plex and trade it for ISK and skill point injectors…

Is this fair, is this good for the game?

Honestly I don’t know… If someone could give me some input in this topic it would be most appreciated :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:.
As I don’t have time and money to spend into pay to win games…


(Aya Audeles) #2

Is pay to support the game. CCP is very generous also for free 2 play players. You can fly up to Battleships and use faction modules and you will pay for it with time you spend in game.


(Karl Poljus) #3

The most important thing in PVP is not money and skillpoints but the personal skill of a player if that’s what you are concerned about. Having 10kkk ship and 200kk skillpoints does not guarantee a win against several characters with 100kk ships and 20kk skillpoints.


(Quelza) #4

You could call it “pay to progress” I suppose, but there’s a couple things to consider.

(1) Gaining access to better equipment and more skills does not automatically guarantee that you’ll win more fights. Success, especially in solo/small-gang PvP, depends heavily upon preparation, target selection, and actual piloting skill. Youtube is chock-full of videos of players using their game knowledge to fight and win in situations where their death seemed all but inevitable.

(2) This is a game where you can log in multiple subscribed accounts to enhance your gameplay. If you consider PLEX and injectors to be sliding towards the pay2win side of things, then character trading via the Character Bazaar, and the ability to log in multiple characters simultaneously must also be considered pay2win.

(3) EVE has no win condition (other than escaping it). You can pay to advance towards whatever goal you have chosen to pursue, but there’s no real “winning” here.

Whether or not injectors are good for the game is a matter of some debate. They almost certainly brought back a number of players, but they also allow the playerbase to min/max every change that CCP makes at a much faster rate. This likely means that CCP has to slow down development and be very careful with each change they consider.


(Phyro Ambraelle) #5

Although alpha cant use the skills I paid to train in omega…


(Peta Chieve) #6

“pay to win”

But EFT is free, so rip that.


(Memphis Baas) #7

Simply put, you can pay thousands of dollars / euros and get your character skilled up and into whatever bling ships you want, does that mean you’ll win when you undock? Probably not, they’ll kill your bling ship fast, and laugh at your newbie tactics and lack of knowledge about the game.

EVE has always been about pacing yourself, stopping at “good enough”, not spending years training skills you don’t need to 5, not blinging that ship when a less expensive fitting will do as well, etc. PLEX is the same way, pace yourself and don’t over-spend.


(Anjyl Took) #8

Not Pay to Win at all.

“Pay” is to give CCP real world money. Nothing in EvE is even locked behind a payment requirement, it hasn’t been for years. Clone States made it possible to never pay, which was hard to do in 14 days before, but it didn’t introduce “Free Players”.

Everything you can get in EvE with real world money can also be grinded for in-game and bought with ISK.

As others pointed out, even having the ISK/ships/skills isn’t “winning”. And since the normal grind for the ISK is mostly disconnected from the “winning” (if there is such a thing in EvE) it isn’t like the grinding to ISK is any more valid than the paying to ISK.

Here in the real world, we can either pay for the game, or we can whore out our time to those who will pay us for that time.


(Black Pedro) #9

Skill trading is like trading anything else in this game: you exchange progress to another player in exchange for ISK. It probably isn’t good for the game as it has created balance issues like where characters can move into ships instantly magnifying any imbalances but it is definitely good for the bottom line as CCP monetized that transfer directly for cash.

PLEX is pretty much is the same. It is a sanctioned way by which players can transfer real-world cash to another player for in-game progress. It does make the game unfair and pay-to-win in a sense if accumulation of stuff or SP is your win condition, but it also allows CCP to take most of the real-world cash for themselves. The game would be more fair if it was purely funded by subscription with no RMT allowed at all, but that is not realistic to enforce so PLEX is a necessary evil.

We have had PLEX for a decade or so and the game seems to still function. Given Eve is an open sandbox game where sides are unbalanced and specifically designed so even T1 gear can be useful, RMT has much less of an impact on “winning” than other factors. It is indeed not “fair” in the sense those with a bigger credit card have an advantage, but there is always someone somewhere who has an advantage over you in this game so don’t dwell on that too much.


(Skander Parzival) #10

I just want to use salvage drones sa Alpha :frowning:
And maybe the Noctis


(CaseyLP) #11

Any of the T1 Destroyers, Catalyst, Thrasher, Cormorant, and Coercer, will work very well and you will still make a lot of money salvaging with those ships. Enough money even to plex our account and go omega status.


(Toran Mallow) #12

Pay to progress slightly faster, not pay to win. The only way to win is to quit.


(Skander Parzival) #13

Sadly destroyers can’t fit an extended probe launcher. Industrials do tho


(CaseyLP) #14

You don’t need an expanded probe launcher for salvaging.

Back when I was in Karmafleet, I used to salvage behind a Nyx who was kind enough to let me do so. It netted me A LOT of money, even though I was just using a lowly Catalyst.

I also believe (if they haven’t changed it) that Karmafleet gives out free salvaging ships for their members to use.


(Mike Azariah) #15

/me steps up on a soapbox

Ok, listen up (or not, I am not your dad)

It is not pay to win not did you ‘buy’ the skills and now they should be yours in perpetuity. It is a subscription game and while you pay, you can play with all the skills that you have trained.

Stop paying and you drop to the time-unlimited trial account with all the skill limits there-in. You are no longer subscribed so you do not have access to all the things you did while you WERE subscribed.

Oh you can buy skills and plex and all sorts of thing but the same as buying a mount in WoW . . . stop subbing and see how far you can ride it. You can still do quite a bit in Eve as a lapsed subscriber but not everything you could do before. This is the marketting hook. The longer you are in the game the more you have skilled up that you will temporarily lose. the skills are still there, just locked away until somebody pays the piper.

If you plex your account CCP still gets paid, just not by you. But for you to have full access? Paid they will be.

questions?

m


(Ag3nt Jita) #16

And it is good as it is now. Before the alpha thing you wouldnt even be able to play the game if you stopped paying or buying plex with isk…


(Trevor Dalech) #17

My opinion – anything spent past your subscription is pay to lose. Without time-honed experience of the game mechanics, any extra SP or blinged up ships usually result in a very pricy loss mail and a very happy pirate.


(NanoCube) #18

Thank you all for your answers :slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face:
Much appreciated :grinning::grinning:


(erg cz) #19

Talwar can be fitted with 6 salvagers and an expanded probe launcher… You need high skill points, though. But you always can use less salvagers…


Free head start for new comers - 250 000 extra skill points


(Skander Parzival) #20

The rigs? The medium slots? It always come to CPU and as an alpha i don’t have the skills for it rn. It’s easy enough tho. The hoarder can have 2 salvagers and i depleate the MTU hoard in a bunch of minutes.

I found actually good to have a second bay to hold the ammo. Selling those in incursion sites will be profitable

If i ever go omega tho, well the noctis is the higher step