The 'Pay To Win' Myth

Well at least you answer Gadget’s denial that anyone is claiming absurd ‘straw man’ things as P2W…as that is effectively precisely what you are doing.

Please elaborate

I mean lets get the definitions right.

Pay to win = Gold ammo = Ammo that does more damage and can only be obtained by spending real money

What is not pay to win is $20 monthly subscription that allow you to use better modules and ships compared to those who dont.

Sound about right?

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Every game in existence has some fanboys like you who will come up with all sorts of reality bending word games to explain how their beloved game is not pay2win.

It doesn’t matter how much you convinced yourself that paying for in-game progression with real life money does not constitutes pay2win by framing the situation a certain way.

Every person who isn’t involved with EVE will look at the game and immediately notice that you can basically throw money at every aspect and advance your journey quicker than if you had to build up wealth by playing the game. They will see that it is unmistakably and blatantly pay2win.

There is an obvious solution to this. CCP could just not make EVE pay2win.

The irony is that CCP was extremeley succesful when they kept it simple. But they decided to add additional revenue streams to the game to be even more succesful. Like skins, cosmetics for characters and the “free to play model”. But it has done the excact opposite. Players are practically leaving in droves and CCP has not figured out why yet or they dont care.

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Someone who has twice as much time to grind can throw time at the matter…yet one never sees anyone complaining about ‘grind to win’ and how unfair it is that some have more grind time than others. There seems to me to be hypocrisy in this.

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That is such a beautiful example of what ridiculous arguments game fans come up with to pretend that their game is not pay2win.

No one will ever find this convincing. It will not sway a single soul who looks at EVE and sees that you can literally buy anything with cash to think this isn’t pay2win.

I don’t know the definition of “purist” in this case.
I can’t recall anyone complaining about P2W alone.

I’ve heard, read and agree that while some have been grinding for x, or y, and then out of nowhere it became something others “could” pay for… therefore, leveling two very distant efforts to improve a toon, it’s assets, or make ISK, perhaps.

ISK is just a tiny aspect of EVE, It could be considered unfair while it has a direct, possible and encouraged connection to real money (PLEX), which is not the epitome, as all games nowdays have that in common in one way or another. Other than that, it has nothing to do with winning.

The initially inconspicuous connection between PLEX and grind is an imaginary construct developed as exchange index that dictates it’s pricing. Never forget that.

No one can enjoy money, “it’s what you do with it”, they say… But there is a very “real” connection between effort - reward which only depends on the point of view. For the case, you have opted to see it from the ISK… which is… incomplete, to say the least. I’d say it’s too narrow of scope, as for tiny that it can be, ISK affects everything but again, has nothing to do with “winning”. Oh!, and fairness.

I always like to compare such with casinos.
You enter one, you bet, you win or lose, right?

Then, what would be the difference between dimes and millions?, considering the casino scenario.

If you cannot enjoy “winning” at any scale, well… EVE life is not for you. As the casino, for the case.

And I usually recommend Norsemen, the series… yes, it’s an-other unfinished business in netflix, but there is this slave character… whom is as happy as any other guppy… for just one very simple reason:

He knows his place.

Only whiners complain about Pay2Win.

Pay 2 Win has two flavours.
The first is when you can buy something for cash that can only be gotten for cash and is markedly superior to what can be earned ingame. For example some of the premium ships/tanks in World of Warships/Tanks.
When something available only for cash is required to be effective. For example World of Tanks Gold Ammo.

EVE Subscriptions are not P2W. Being able to convert cash into ingame currency is not P2W.

The entire PLEX system was initially developed as a way of combating ISK selling sites.


But in contrast to the Trial, you can continue to play for free without ever spending a single Euro for subscription (including plex) because Alpha state is not just a trail, it’s the full game experience with a few asterisks.

So on one hand you say that having access to more powerful features with money only is pay2win, but a subscription, which costs money and literally gives you access to more powerful features somehow isn’t pay2win. Great reasoning

Yes it is

That was an utterly brilliant strategy to sell pay2win mechanics to their players. Literally everyone bought it. Yet it did nothing to battle RMT or botting, it simply added another revenue stream for CCP, made the game objectively worse and legitimized cheating by paying for advancements in the game.

paying a subscription isn’t ‘pay to win’. it’s pay to play. in any event, it’s possible to earn in game ISK and convert that to Omega. Not that I’d do that myself, grinding that kind of ISK as an alpha is just bleagh.

what’s better for the game, paying some dodgy botting website for ISK or paying CCP for PLEX that you then convert to ISK?
PLEX has been pretty successful as an anti-RMT measure as anti-RMT measures go.
If someone wants to go and blow their IRL $$$ for pixelbux, that’s their choice. It still doesn’t buy them the skills needed to do well with their shiny space pixels. There’s been plenty of examples of someone spending big $$$ on some officer fit abomination of a ship only to have it asploded a couple of jumps from Jita.
Pay To Win would be a Plex-Powered Ancillary Armour Repper, or PLEX Guns that deal doomsday levels of damage.


As far as the game goes, they are both the same. It’s not about who would you rather buy gold from. That’s the wrong question.

It should be, “Who want’s to play a game where RMT features so prominently?”


As this is an MMO, the mechanics are geared toward the simple minded. If you think there is more than the most basic skill requirements to do well at this game, then you are exactly the consumer they are looking for. Not too bright and with access to your mom’s credit card.

Being bombastic and full of hyperbole doesn’t make what you say correct.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


one puts money in the hands of CCP which can then spend said money on further game development, the other puts hands in the money of some random botter.
your argument is spectacularly invalid.

PLEX is payment for a service in lines with the EULA and ToU.

RMT is in breach of both.

once again, your argument is invalid.

being obstreperous and facetious doesn’t make you correct.


Why would you need an FC to tell you what to click?

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Willfully ignorant. Willfully misunderstanding what you read. Replying to a nonexistent statement. Fabricating definitions. Responding like a CCP spokesperson.


Brisc? Is that you?

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:


I am too tired to wade in.

Gets Popcorn. :popcorn: :popcorn:

EVE is not PTW. I can kill any trillionaire I want if they have a bad fit. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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I keep forgetting you’re a troll.
Silly me.

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They treat all the stupid players the same, don’t matter if they are new, old, rich, or poor. You see, my issue with advertisement is the videos of cool massive dogfights and space battles with a dozen or more ships. The video will state “actual game play” but let’s face facts, those battles a) seldom happen and b) never look good. They might as well put up a video of any generic space opera and have a rock anthem playing, it would be as equally wrong. Also they show cgi people in the videos, and not a day goes by in rookie chat where a player asks, “How do I get out of my ship and walk around in the station?”.

Eve Online is not pay to win, since you cannot win any MMO. I will admit it has an elite paywall for advancement. Just enjoy it, no one is wrenching your arm to buy anything.

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