You could pay2win that in a few seconds, just swipe the card!
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Indeed I could. But unlike all the nublets that would be fine with it, I’d just feel dirty. Like buying my doctorate online instead of going to medical school.
When you remove the challenge, you remove the joy and satisfaction.
Mr Epeen 
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So what you decided? Is this game P2W?
It’s a whatever you want it to be.
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I agree. I pay for SP and Isk… so what?!
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wasn’t enough for you ?
I can recommend a command ship, a couple of t3c’s and a dreadnaught. Over to you. And put your cup down first. Have fun with your “play2progress”, or whateveryouwannacallit.
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I’m not attacking you. You made a statement that dismissed new bros’ progression so I made one that dismisses vet’s time in the game.
Thank you but I’m happy in my Hecate. I said before that Destroyer Class was my favorite so I don’t know what I would do with a Dreadnought.
Eh? Did your brain go to mush with all the grind too?
Thank you. I am having fun thanks to P2P.
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Taking down those POCO’s in hisec is murder on the brain, no question about it. I wish I had time to relax and do some mining for minerals for my next build while dodging some gankerdudetypes.
Not strong on definitions eh ? I don’t care if you spend all your credit on this game. But don’t pretend it’s not bypassing the normal flow. It’s okay to be impatient, it’s not okay to try to convince us it’s not impatience, lol. You buy shortcuts not available in the game.
You never will, we will stay at a difference of opinion.
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Thanks for the insult.
I never pretended it isn’t. If you had read my posts without insults in your head you would know that.
You obviously cannot have a conversation with people who disagree with you. You resort to insults and belittling.
I don’t want to be insulted by you so goodbye and have a nice life.
Sigh. I have plenty of time to play it…which is precisely why I don’t have time to grind for 12 different characters. I’m actually one of the most active people in the game.
But heck…give me more non sequiturs, why not.
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Your list is admirable…but I don’t see the point in goals who’s end result nobody but you knows about. If I make 100 trillion ISK, its of zero relevance to me if nobody knows I have 100 trillion ISK. This is why I care nothing for PvE and ‘winning’ against NPCs. I am competitive and the only Eve worth playing for me is one where other people can see that. It is otherwise not worth logging in.
They’re throwing everything at it, including the kitchen sink, because they can’t stand the idea that they had to grind but we don’t have to.
I don’t care what they think. CCP thought it right to add Pay2Progress to EVE and for good reasons. Who are they to go against the devs decisions? They don’t even work in the industry. They couldn’t code an exit to save their lives but they know better than the devs and the CSM?
Gimme a break.
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No, it is a statement about the relative importance of starting fresh in a 20 year old game, and the clever feeding off of new people by letting them spend cash for sp shortcuts.
There is no “conversation” with people you agree with, only smiles and backpatting. You can only have an exchange of viewpoints with people who do not share the same opinion.
Buying extra stuff, not available in the normal flow is, by definition (not mine, search the web where it originated), pay2win. I don’t care if anyone does in a game like EvE.
You seem eager to read that buying shortcuts for cash is not pay2win for whatever reason. That is something I cannot give you, and if you feel hurt by that, there’s nothing I will do about that.
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As you pointed out earlier, they are going all out to avoid the real elephant in the room…the totally un-level playing field after 20 years…and instead want to focus on endless absurd semantics about what P2W ‘means’. But the point is, even if we do go with their definition of what it means…we still don’t care. No definition of P2W makes that totally uneven playing field magically go away.
And really, the ‘true’ definition of P2W is essentially a gatekeeping one. It’s about people with a 20 year advantage making sure they hang on to every second of that 20 year advantage and will always be 20 years ahead. That is why it is sheer anathema that anyone should be able to reduce it to 19 years and 363 days with 2 days worth of skill injector. Somehow the almost vertical playing field is totally fair whilst it is unfair if anyone reduces its angle by even 0.001 of a degree via PLEX.
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They didn’t avoid it, it’s worse than that, and I quote:
They don’t give a good godamn.
They pretend to care about the player count and new bros but really, all they care about is their stuff, their advantage and their time.
But we’re supposed to care about their precious definitions and their idea of progression? Then they hurl insults because they’re out of points to make, like juveniles?
Altara, we’ve clearly won this debate, if only by virtue of towel throw the second they started insulting and demeaning us.
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Suddenly, peace broke out.
You don’t care what money new people spend. You said so yourself.
…and do not insult me by the same token.
Only I’m not good with definitions, you said so yourself, so I will ignore every definition under the sun and state that your definition of P2W is completely off base and has nothing to do with EVE Online… ever.
I didn’t ask for anything from you.
Don’t play innocent and insult me even more.
You know exactly why I felt hurt.
Not thanks to you.
A fragile peace was broken unilaterally.
Sorry, not really. You found a cap lying around that fit you, you started wearing it and then decided you didn’t like the look. Then you decided it was my fault and came out all indignant.
Buy all the sp you want, for any ship you want. Feel good about it, it’s your money and your time for a product you try to enjoy. I mean that ! Tell yourself quietly the buying is “pay2whatever” you want, but don’t assume you can rewrite definitions for the rest of us (here and in other games).
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If you’re so knowledgeable about Eve, then you should know that for a long time players could see your character standings with Faction, Corp and Agents. Just because you can’t see it now doesn’t mean it’s not worth anything.
Besides that, it doesn’t matter what others know or think, what matters is the goals you set and complete for yourself in the game.
You keep talking about an uneven playing field which is completely untrue, eluding to not being able to quickly gain a bunch of ISK, SP’s, ships or even be a CEO of a Null Sec Alliance. If that’s what you really want then just whip out your Credit Card and do your ‘Pay2Progress’ option.
Other than that, there’s nothing more to be said.
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Is that what it was? Well then, everything is fine. I’m over it.
I’m glad you’re willing to acknowledge at least that.
I’m not good with definitions, you said so yourself, so I won’t be rewriting anything. You can sleep easy tonight knowing that your precious definitions are safe.