Ok, so you are fine with golden ammo then. It would jist be pay4advantage unless it guarantees 100% win.
Win in what exactly? Against 10 other ships? 100? Because it would not be “winning” otherwise right, so it can’t be pay2win…
The cope is really strong with you.
Yes it’s all about semantics. You can’t handle it that the majority of people would call all of this pay2win even if there is no “win” involved. That is how it is, and no amount of pretending that it’s not a litteral “win” will ever be convincing to anyone except the people like you who think that calling it that gives the game bad rep.
Hearthstone for example has cards ONLY through PAYING $$$$ to blizzard. THAT is blatant PTW. I pay for the card that is super op and I win 100000 matches with it.
You can enhance your chance of win in many ways in New Eden with cash.
Win fight (with SP/fits bought for cash), win market (by rigging it with ISK bought for cash), win allies (buy them, again, with ISK bought for cash),
win any any other SP time gates by bypassing them with booster-looping paid for with cash. I suspect there are other examples I am unaware of
Man, if you spent the same amount of thinking and reading my posts you spend on crying because you feel offended by the simple fact that I mention your obvious coping, you would maybe even start to see the blatant irrationality and self defeating nature of your argumentation.
Here is the quote from Wikipedia what the definition of pay2win is:
It’s about gaining an advantage. That is the general accepted definition for pay2win. It has nothing to do with “winning”
You pretend otherwise because you don’t like that people call the game you like pay2win, even though it clearly is. As @Vokan_Narkar eloquently pointed out, some people don’t like to think of themselves as playing such a game, but confronted with the facts that they are actually playing one they have to come up with excuses to make the world in their mind consistent again.
It’s pure cope.
Eve is blatantly pay2win no amount of fanboys claiming otherwise will ever change it. The only people who can do something about it is CCP, but they will not, because you tell them that everything is fine.
Someone didn’t like my counter argument, so they flagged it and had it removed.
Really goes to show who’s on the “copium” and who’s not!
Here, I’ll give you what you want
Karak.
gasp! You are so right! How could I have been so blinded! It must have been all that copium I was on. Thank you for spinning all sorts of logical fallacies to point that out to me! EvE is totally a pay2win. I mean, my goodness, giving people who actually pay for the game and receive a service that is more encompassing than the freemium! The nerve! Those poor fremium people have it so bad!
Thank you! Thank you so much for being a paragon of righteous judgment and stellar example of logical debate! Even flagging posts that you personally disagree with! Nothing like censorship to drive a point home eh!
But someone who has the time to mine for 4 hours a day has an ‘advantage’ over someone who can only mine for 2 hours a day. So advantage exists even within the ‘grind’ system and is not specific to anyone ‘paying’ anything. Why do people only make a fuss when it comes to money…yet nobody makes a fuss when the exact same amount of advantage is gained via having more time ?
Don’t you know, that any advantage, regardless of type, is clearly “winning.” The ultimate irrefutable expert on the subject matter has declared it as such, and even had a Wikipedia search to verify it. Just to make it more concrete.
Yeah, I have seen this coming from miles away. It’s the general argument you get from people with their back on the wall who first demand prove and when provided have to find an excuse to disregard it.
Anyway, please provide an alternative source of the actual term pay2win then and not just “win”.
Because this is an insanely dumb argument, that is why. There is literally nothing to even discuss about.
If you compete in a chess game, you would never even entertain the idea that it’s unfair that a particular player had more time to play and thus has an advantage, so it should be fair game for the other player to swipe their credit card and buy two extra queens.
It’s absolutely ridiculous and you probably know it.
Eve is blatantly pay2win, it’s not even a question.
Nonsense. Advantage is advantage. Someone who has more time available to mine clearly has an advantage over someone who has half that time…all without ‘paying’ anything extra. I pointed this out as far back as the original OP…yet it is just glossed over and ignored because it doesn’t fit the whining about ‘pay’ for something.
I’ve found one aspect of the game that can’t be enhanced with cash
Industry. You can’t directly shorten jobs duration beyond what Industry skills already give you. A year long job is a year long job no matter how much cash you could pour on it
I wonder if it is overlooking on CCP part or on purpose
Pay2win requires that there are advantages in the game, that can only be aquired via cash transactions.
You can aquire anything in the game without having to spend a single penny. You can train your alpha character to become a station trader, plex your account, aquire enough cash to plex multiple accounts and etc. it is all possible to do that, therefore EVE Online is not pay to win.
Of course, there are significant incentives in place to speed up your progress via cash infusion. But ultimately, someone will always have more than you, be richer than you, and so forth. This is the game, and all of the options and tools necessary to overcome your obstacles are aquireable. It just comes down to if you’re an hard enough gamer to overcome those challenges.
No, it’s if you can use cash transactions to gain an advantage in the game.
It does not need to be something exclusive to the cash shop.
The exclusivity clause, like many other similar exceptions when it comes to this topic, is something people come up with because they can’t cope with the fact that their favored game went down the pay2win road, and they rather would not want that other people think they play a pay2win game.
Like for example this thread. Why does it exist? Everyone can clearly see that eve is full of things that qualify it as pay2win, yet people can’t accept that. So they make threads like this, to huddle together and asure each other that eve is not pay2win.
They make up ridiculous arguments like the op, that probably make the most intense fanboy cringe. But because they really want to believe in the conclusion, they nod, leave their intelectual honesty at the door and loudly agree that eve is just a bit pay for advantage, that a little credit card swiping never hurt anyone and that maybe this is good for CCP and retention (the retention argument is a staple, it always works).
The issue with this scenario is that the math does not really track like that, because different forms of content require different kinds of funding and resources.
For instance, let’s say Jack has 10 hours to mine a day, and Joe 5 as you suggested.
Jack decides to migrate to Nullsec, and finds a corp he wants to join.
However, Jack discovers that corp has a requirement to field a supercapital when needed.
So now Jack has to mine a whole lot to buy or build one, and to replace it if he loses it.
Jack then starts doing a whole lot of TiDi battles in potato mode.
Meanwhile Joe decides to migrate to FW Lowsec, and the dudes who pop his venture feel bad for him, so they chat him up, throw him a ship and invite him to fly with them. Because of the new Direct Enlistment mechanic, he can actually take them up on it, and decides to do so. Joe gets addicted to smallgang kitchensink frigate nonsense, and notices that the LP he gets from FW is enough for him to keep buying more ships. Eventually Joe gets gud and starts maining solo PvP, and notices that he is ISK positive from looting the modules from wrecks of his fallen enemies.
So we then end up with Joe playing 5 hours a day, but constantly getting the content he wants in a sustainable way, whilst Jack plays 10 hours a day, but only rarely gets the super fights he wants, and has to mine to replace his losses.
Does the guy whose fits cost 5 mil have less fun than the guy whose fits cost 15 bil because one is in a frig and the other is in a super?
