The State of Factional Warfare: Ideas and Improvements

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
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21

Nax, Mira, Gorski.

Many of the leading FC’s and FW personalities were, have and are doing it.

While some of your fleet fights are dynamic, many are organised. Mira used to message Harkon with times and places to fight, with the promise they wouldn’t shoot each other. :smiley: Same with the missions. People who have long left FW are still slurping up LP faster than you can say ‘Where’s Bullet Anarchy?’

People had been having fun in Floseswin for a long time. It didn’t require some RP cancer to create content. FW folks needed to hold the line, and keep the pressure on CCP to make the desperately needed changes.

Now FW is little more than bots, farmers and 300 Mil bling frigates :man_shrugging: with many of the real personalities and history of the areas gone. They will return sporadically, but that will become even less regular.

Oh and opening a reply with an ad-hominem is poor form old boy.

Kind Regards,

Xi

22

Well, you did include the fallicies of:

1/hasty generalization (towards RPers)
2/slippery slope (towards CCP development)
3/straw man (towards CCP)
4/red herring (to divert away from my points)

So I think just a small ad-hominem is more than fair.

23
  1. RP’ers ended the embargo
  2. CCP helped them do it.
  3. What straw man arguments did I make against CCP? Other than accusing them of bowing to the whims of a few. (CSM members) Something that has happened in EvE history an awful lot.
  4. I wasn’t diverting from your points at all, in fact I agree with many of them. The front line thing isn’t good though.

Although I liked the idea forwarded on discord with making mission running a front line system. In combination with a few other changes that could be spicy.

Ad-hominems are never fair as they detract from the points made. If you beleive the points untrue
say as much, calling me ‘un-informed’ seems entirely unrelated and unlikely given if been flying around this backwater systems almost as long as you have.

Kind Regards,

Xi

24

Ok, I’m willing to call a truce lol. In this setting, I think we need more friends than enemies. Your points about the frontline system are valid. Ideas for another concentration mechanic that leaves room for occasional backwater solo PvP would be ideal.

1 Like
25

@Xi_Ling you may like this, as it does nothing to remove backwater plexing and is still a concentration mechanic:

"The Adaptive Plexing System (APS)

Assumption 1: The tier system does not exist.
Assumption 2: FW Missions do not exist.

Purpose: The APS is designed to concentrate players by giving higher Plex completion rewards in dangerous systems.

Function:
1/For each system in FW a 3 day running average of the value of Isk destroyed is recorded.
2/All FW systems in the warzone are separated into their respective warzone group (Minmatar-Amarr and Caldari-Gallente)
3/Systems are ranked ordered by the most dangerous (the systems with the most destruction) ranked at the top.
4/At downtime, the top 1/4 of the systems are given a 2x bonus to LP payout. The next 1/4 are given 1.5x bonus. The next 1/4 are given no bonus, and the last 1/4 are given a 0.5x penalty.
5/Systems with a 2x multiplier are advertised as having higher rewards in The Agency.
6/A GM may manually adjust payouts to up to 3x if required for RP reasons.

This would create a positive feedback loop for systems that are more destructive, drawing in content looking to make more off plexing, which in turn causes the system to be more destructive.

This would create a negative feedback loop for a farmer just wishing to go to a quiet system to run a plex, not intending to look for a fight.

Alternatives: The frontline plexing system."

1 Like
26

You’re right, I could totally get behind something like that. I mean I’d want moar! But that would still be a massively welcome and overdue start. :smiley:

27

I still personally feel that FW needs to be alot more involved than just plex warfare. Because even if there are changes made and an overhaul to the existing system that concentrates heavily on plex warfare. The combat will still remain the same and ultimately be just as stale and predictable as it currently is.

Killing endless waves of shitfit thrashers or t1 frigates gets boring after about the second wave. In my opinion. Larger fights and fights in larger hull sizes should be rewarded. Not avoided.

Others have mentioned the idea of roaming NPC fleets that duke it out, and could give bonuses system wide or fleetwide that benefit those that aid them succesfully.
Killing certain structures or objective points which also gives bonuses, drops or LP payouts.
Make it seem like an actual war is happening, rather than two groups of window lickers endlessly feeding into each other.
Hell even escorting NPC fleets of haulers/freighters or general fleets, or protecting npc mining fleets that ultimately give a reward or something. Basically anything that actually puts pilots in space and makes them active rather than orbiting a beacon mindlessly.

I’m not a game designer by no means and I cannot personally come up with any ideas that arn’t terrible myself. But limiting FW to just plex combat seems really dull to me. And again doesn’t push the players or the player groups to improve themselves. Doesn’t encourage growth and for players to challenge themselves or ethe enemy militia.

1 Like
28

Absolutly, and many of those things you’ve touched on, have been gone into some detail by others over the years.

NPC fleets was a great idea, maybe some RP escort the EMperor’s illegitamate daughter to Bosboger for tea and crumpets type thing; sure.

Instead we got a couple of small NPC fleets in Isbra, Kurn and Ezzaza. :man_shrugging:

29

My thoughts to improve the Factional Warfare PvP arena and resolve some currently flawed and exploited game mechanics:

One of the best improvements CCP made regarding the Faction Warfare PvP arena was to close off the Novice/Small/Medium plexes to Ventures and ships with warpcore stabilizers,
yet these ships still have access to open sites.

FW Missions and How They Devalue LP.
A - CCP did change Loyalty Point payouts for Faction Warfare missions have been reduced by approximately 30% in 2020 patch. i think this should have been 40%
B - Faction Warfare missions are should not be removed as they are good for gaining ranks and standings + add extra content in low sec
C - Every Fac-War mission should have Scram/Web Frigates in them, not only Caldari and Minmatar (CCP biased?)
D - Fac-War mission NPC’s should not shoot at players enlisted with that same faction. This will make Fac-War missions make more sense and add a factor of PvP to be considered
before running missions while enlisted. Fac-War should mean Faction Warfare. right now if i go in a gal fw mission the state npc shoot at me when i allied to them

problem: The tier system
A - There should be only T LP tiers in Fac-War, not the current 5, to reduce any possibility to throw the LP market off balance

Problem: Citadels Make System Ownership Strategically Meaningless
A - Fac-War enlisted pilots should not be allowed to dock in Citadels within “enemy” faction war low-Sec space

B - Fac-War enlisted pilots should not be allowed to dock in NPC stations and Citadels within “enemy” faction High-Sec space

C - Security Status of - 5.0 should prevent docking in High-Sec NPC stations and Citadels

Problem The I-Hub bonuses should be reworked
current values
lower broker fees for contracts and market orders (-10% per system upgrade level)
lower costs for industry activities in NPC stations (-10% per upgrade level)

A - only Militia pilots of the owning faction get these bonuses

B - Besides the optional LP donation towards a system I-Hub, Corps enlisted in Fac-War should have the ability to set an LP tax so that ceo and directors can add to I-Hubs
(added tab in Corp managment window for Corps enlisted in Fac-War)

Fac-War NPC Corp stations
A - Fac-War NPC Corp stations should also provide refining/manufacturing to their Militia pilots only, when owning a Fac-War system
B - Fac-War NPC Corp stations should also provide free repair to their Militia pilots only, when owning a Fac-War system

LP stores
A - Some Fac-War LP stores are currently better than others and a balance need to applied (biased?)
B - LP stores in genral are out of date and neaded over haul

“Logs and Messages” is faulty and requires rework since:
A- Info requested to filter out still shows
B- Info requested to filter in fails to show
C- Weapon Type fails to show
D- Faulty display of information in general

general points
A - Shooting any Fac-War ally (example Cal-Mil shooting an Amarr-Mil) should result a standings loss with both allied Factions (loss of Amarr and Caldari standings)

B - Damps should have the same rules as ECM, so that the source of damp can always be targeted (while within the original pre-damped range)

C - Drones that end up beyond control range (they remain engaged on target untill target is killed) should not be able to be recalled or reconnected to untill within control range again + every time you deploy or dock them there should 5 sec reload timer

D -Safety Containers should be Contractable to another character

E -new item i would like to see micro Mobile Depots volume 5m3 capacity 300m (for frigates only) as most figate have limited cargo space so Mobile Depots are in practial

And finally, the CCP saying “ISK vs Risk” is no longer fully true. Hopefully the above would start the way back towards the original intention of this saying.

2 Likes
30

Overall some good thoughts Beet, a true composer. :smiley:

Cannot change this. It was a hotfix for an exploit by mission runners using Alts within opposing faction (aligned with the NPC’s) to complete the mission without being aggressed.

You’d have to come up with some kind of rework on the missions to have spawns of NPC’s from both sides so that no-one could run the mission without taking aggression.

They could flatten the tiers in 5 minutes work. Keep five but remove penalty at tier 1 as stated before and make the other 4 tiers only small percentage increases.

I welcome you to join the FW Discord and splurg ideas and discussions on whatever you think is viable. The server has become quite with everyone struck with apathy of late.

31

AFAIK CCP have fixed this for triglavian/edencom NPCs. Maybe this can be backported.

I have simple idea:
Reverse LP tier bonus for plexes. Maybe make it even more extreme for plexes.

  • Winning side will run missions and gain ISC or run plexes and keep tier
  • Losing side will run plexes and fight for tier and gain ISC
32

Wouldn’t that just encourage farmers to one side and their mission running alts to another? I mean it would be slightly harder sure but it doesn’t fix the problem.

33

I hope that this will make double-faction farming model less lucrative at first place
So single-faction players will be more common which will boost roleplay and shift meta to more PvP-dependent

Also
I hope that this change is easy to implement for CCP

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up date on The tier system
A - There should be only three tiers in Fac-War, not the current 5, to reduce any possibility to throw the LP market off balance ie drop 4 and 5

cal/gal war zone for example
101 systems with lvl 5 ihubs = 606 points
nead 0 points for tier 1 - 50% lps
nead 220 points for tier 2 base lps
nead 440 points for tier 3 + 75% lps

misson npcs hotfix for an exploit by mission runners using Alts within opposing faction (aligned with the NPC’s) to complete the mission without being aggressed.
ok now i get why that make sence

i dont think fw misson runing is an issue. also if 1 side take all system then misson are only way good way to make lp

triglavian/edencom NPCs seems to me if you dont have neg standing them
CCP should set them not to shoot pilots in eve

ccp do neaded to improve low sec life they seem to lose focuse on good game content
but seem to want to sell more ■■■■ like skins ect
they def neaded to get back to when the game had 75.000 loging on ever day

4 Likes
35

FW mission running wouldn’t be an issue if it didn’t affect FW Plex payout.

I’m fine with a high income source in FW. I want more of those actually, it attracts people to the region.

What I don’t want though is for FW plexes to pay out nothing. A decent idea would be to remove datacores from FW LP stores and make FW missions pay out stacks of datacores instead. Demand for datacores is decent. You need them to make T2 items.

36

The main problem with FW is the market. FW gameplay represents the very best of EvE online and may even be the future of EvE online but only as long as you can keep both sides engaged and make sure both sides have relatively even numbers. In the Amarr Minmatar war zone, the FW market has always favoured Minmatar which automatically means that Amarr always has had less real players than Minmatar does. Until recently this has not been a problem as Amarr prides themselves on being better players and are happy to fight and win outnumbered. Minmatar blob but not so much that the blob counteracts all skill, until now. With the new industrial changes, the Minmatar market is expected to be heavily buffed further through Typhoon Fleet Issues being sold cheaply to null sec which will replace Machariels as they get more expensive. While the Amarr market seems to be permanently weak. This disparity in the markets is a big problem. Amarr were fighting at the top edge of their skill level before the enormous buff to Minmatar to keep things even. After the buff there is a real chance of a permanent collapse in FW leaving no content for anyone.

To engage and keep new players in FW, there also needs to be a way to make converting LP into ISK easier. New players can’t wait 6 months to a year for market conditions to allow them to cash out their LP.

37

I have been reading up on FW to decide whether I wanted to play it. What happens when your ship is destroyed and podded? Do you have to stop playing, spawn in the medical bay then have to go get another ship and get the stuff to fit it again before getting back into the FW fight? IF that’s the case I would never play it. Where is the fun in that.

38

Just to say, Albion Online has been introducing the Frontline system into their own Faction Warfare system and it seems to be doing just fine.

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That’s how the whole game works. Treat ships like ammo and buy a few at a time.

How much solo-ing happens in albions version of FW?

40

Yes, if something is destroyed you cannot use it again. This is an integral part of EVE and something you should consider when logging on. Eventually, after several losses you will start getting the hang of it and will begin destroying more than you lose (hopefully). Getting wet is part of swimming.

What most of us do is we will have several fitted ships ready depending on our skills, play-styles, and functions.
This way if (when) our ship is destroyed all we gotta do is fly back and get into the next one.

You will find it very useful to set up an F.O.B. with several ships you are well skilled in (both in-game skills and which you feel comfortable using) in a stable Low-Sec border system (either a High-Sec system bordering the Warzone , or a Low-Sec system in the Warzone with access to High-Sec nearby (1-2 jumps)) and install your “Medical Clone” (respawn) at the F.O.B. for the duration of your Enlistment.
If you are in a Corp you will likely be advised where to set up F.O.B. and it will usually be where the Corp also has assets, making the sharing and swapping of modules and ships between the Corp much easier.