EVE mechanics on checking player douchery

[Ramona_McCandless]

If CCPs intention was as you describe then the controls on pkayer behaviour would be tighter, wouldnt they?

[Ronnie_Rose]

Not necessarily. See, CCP envisioned EVE as a sandbox experiment to see what player behaviors would emerge in an “anything goes” setting. After a while CCP realized that approach is not sustainable for the game’s longevity so they started putting game mechanics in place to direct consequences like the bounty system in the Retribution expansion in 2012. Problem is things like the bounty system is indiscriminate because anyone can place a bounty on someone whether they behaved positively or negatively so it makes the mechanic ineffective (but the intent was there to punish wrongful behavior by other players)

Either way, they didn’t want to put too many “punishing” mechanisms because they wanted to keep that danger, risk versus reward element.

And, yes Felyx, your big stick analogy is correct. I don’t think CCP has adequately pursued the carrot side of the mechanics if their intention is to try and balance the game between positive and negative behavior.

[Tipa_Riot]

@Ronnie_Rose

if their intention is to try and balance the game between positive and negative behavior.

“If” … I don’t think this is the case, and has ever been. There is only balancing decisions to allow different game play styles to coexist plus some lore thing for the role players. Positive or negative is a totally subjective projection everybody can decide freely to put on actions/behaviour within the rules of the EULA.

[Trevor_Dalech]

@Felyx_Ravencroft

but ultimately someone who is generous and kind is not likely to be trying to ruin another player’s day

Except that “ruining ones day” is extremely relative.

I see EVE as a competitive game (chess comes to mind) as such, I like fights, whether I win or lose. I’ve blown up billions, and both my target and I had a great time. I’ve lost billions, and both me and my aggressor had a great time. Each fight is a learning experience! As such, when I attack someone, usually I am providing fun for all sides involved!

If losing a match in tic-tac-toe… checkers… chess… go… EVE… whatever… ruins your day, perhaps you need to realise that competitive games are perhaps not your thing. In that case, the winning strategy might be not to play.

[Dom_Arkaral]

It didn’t…
I don’t even know why people still believe it was ever real

[Pleasure_Hub_Node-514]

@Giddy_McFee

As Memphis says above Right Click > give money and gifting items to people.

You could always be ‘bad’ and spam 1 ISK increments to fill up a person’s wallet ledger.

[Giddy_McFee]

@Pleasure_Hub_Node-514

You could always be ‘bad’ and spam 1 ISK increments to fill up a person’s wallet ledger.

Do people do that? Why would people do that?

[Uriel_the_Flame]

Probably it is another form of “PVP”.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Ronnie_Rose

So far all of these things are meant to penalize for “misbehavior.” Seeing that as it is, is there a side of EVE that encourages good behavior?

Reputation effects. When I started the game I realized I could do pretty much what I wanted after a certain point. I decided I’d play “honestly”. That is, I wouldn’t rob my corporation/alliance blind. I wouldn’t scam. I wouldn’t spy, and so forth.

The upside to this is that I am not on anyone’s “black list”. The “downside” is I have looked at over 200 billion ISK worth of stuff in a hangar and left it there. I have also stuck with a group I have allied myself with through “thick and thin” and it shows in my employment history, I am not a fair weather ally.

Now, that was my choice. It isn’t for everyone and as @Jonah_Gravenstein has pointed out any an all styles of play are valid in game. And if you do decide to play the villain in game that does not make you a bad person IRL.

And yes @Eternus8lux8lucis is quite correct to note that EVE is about choices, big and small. Even a small choice can have far reaching consequences…and you might not even realize it.

There is pretty much a forever war on the forums between those who want our choices to “mean something” and those who don’t. The latter group pretty much want to turn the game into a stand alone simulation where your choices have pretty much no repercussions. They usually go this route because they do not want to be responsible for their decisions…which are often bone headed.

@Felyx_Ravencroft

I understand that you are separating player from character (“in-game”) here - but ultimately someone who is generous and kind is not likely to be trying to ruin another player’s day, and conversely a real-life dickhead is not going to turn philanthropist in-game. People’s characters shine through in their in-game actions - if anything, their true character is revealed, as they don’t have to face real-life consequences, such as jail or the chair…

No…actually you are just kind of a dickhead. Especially for being a white knight douche bag on the forums.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Ronnie_Rose

This got me thinking that EVE does do as much as possible to curb bad behavior with consequences provided through in game features, but does it do enough to balance the other end?

Curb bad behavior…being “bad” in game is not bad behavior as far as the game is concerned. You do know what it means that EVE is a sandbox game right?

Do what you want shall be the whole of the law. That’s pretty much it…the list of things you can’t do in game is quite short and usually involves creepy behavior IRL.

[Lady_Ayeipsia]

Look, are you sure EVE does not mirror real life? There ample laws that punish negative action but few reward systems in life. I can get a raise if I do good work, but even that depends on how the company does. Yet if I accept a bribe or perform an unethical action, I will be punished.

I can help a person change a tire in the highway and I may get a thank you and a smile. If I speed, illegally switch lanes without a signal or the like though, I can get a hefty ticket.

I can help a homeless person and get a smile and thank you. Same with making a donation to charity. Yet if I mug a person, jail time.

Now I am not saying any of this is wrong or out of proportion. However, EVE seems to mirror reality. There is far more negative repercussions for a bad action than positive support for good ones. So maybe EVE isn’t really that far off.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

@Teckos_Pech

And yes @Eternus8lux8lucis is quite correct to note that EVE is about choices, big and small. Even a small choice can have far reaching consequences…and you might not even realize it.

In 2003-04 I made two choices that affected my entire last 15 years playing this game.

• Not to play for isk and follow the newest ships, modules and tech. This was when all my friends were doing the T2 lottos and slightly before that with BS introduction (bigger isnt always better).

• Not to hide by creating alts. But to ensure that my reputation follows me and my characters. This has led to widespread and deep consequences for myself that I am proud of even if they hurt to some degree or close certain doors.

These choices made Eve what it is for me to this day. By creating a set of limitations surrounding isk or power its kept Eve unimaginably fun and interesting through its increased difficulty. Its made my choices hurt in a loss and gains mean something again rather than being able to toss insane amounts of isk at something. Its also meant some very unique social situations throughout my Eve life. Things that follow you around like a bad rash that just doesnt go away.

Without these choices and consequences Eve wouldnt be the same and it wouldnt have lasted nearly as long.

[Anne_Dieu-le-veut]

@Felyx_Ravencroft

Actually, that is THE best (perhaps the closest to true) litmus to judge a player by - one’s actions are after all what speaks loudest. If not by their actions (and words, granted - but words are typically merely another sort of expressive action), what should we be basing our opinions of other players?

I understand that you are separating player from character (“in-game”) here - but ultimately someone who is generous and kind is not likely to be trying to ruin another player’s day, and conversely a real-life dickhead is not going to turn philanthropist in-game. People’s characters shine through in their in-game actions - if anything, their true character is revealed, as they don’t have to face real-life consequences, such as jail or the chair…

What about people that have one “bad” character, and a half dozen upstanding citizen characters? What are your amateur psychoanalysist views on this?

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Kathern_Aurilen

As a feature… Kill rights are almost worthless!!! Having to activate them, you most times miss your chance to use them at a time of your choosing. Kill rights should be automatically activated!!!

Why? Being lazy is not a valid reason for such a change.

I’m a miner and industrialist and usually not in a position to avenge a ganking.

If you were a halfway competent miner and industrialist you wouldn’t need to avenge a ganking; either by not getting ganked in the first place, or by considering the occasional ship loss to be a business expense.

But most gankers are setup almost all the same, close range hard hitters. If I want to avenge myself with no warning I should be able to just drop in on them and kite it.

You already can, a very large majority of gankers are freely engagable without a killright or Concord intervention, due to their security status.

[Trixie_Lawless]

@Giddy_McFee

1: People that infiltrate corps in order to wipe out their assets via theft from a corp or alliance. I think that is a special sort of GENIUS that is way beyond AWESOME.

Fixed that for you. xD

[Uriel_the_Flame]

@Trixie_Lawless

@Giddy_McFee

1: People that infiltrate corps in order to wipe out their assets via theft from a corp or alliance. I think that is a special sort of GENIUS that is way beyond AWESOME.

Fixed that for you. xD

Even CCP approves:

EVE Online: Causality

[Fluffy_Moe]

On a somewhat related note to the original topics, I’d like to make a couple comments on some of these.

To me it seems the bounty system is too far sub-par of where it needs to be. The bounties are nearly completely not worth going after anyone and need to be very seriously adjusted, or on a dynamic reward system that somewhat scales with market values over time.

Kill rights seem OK, not great but OK since you can make it public and someone will usually pop a given individual, or make it hard for them to play since many of their opponents will have players that they have kill rights on color flagged.

Wardecs used to be somewhat related to this also as they initially often were used in such manner, except group vs group instead of player vs player. But now they have devolved into their current stupid state and are in need of rework to return them to that.

I think the rest of the stuff, Standing Ratings, Criminal Status flags and Concord are ok as they are for now.

[Kathern_Aurilen]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

If you were a halfway competent miner and industrialist you wouldn’t need to avenge a ganking; either by not getting ganked in the first place, or by considering the occasional ship loss to be a business expense

I’m not worried about the cost of ganking, I’m an alpha(ol lady keeps me busy, play less than 3 a week most times) after all… I see it as more of an opportunity for fun and a learning experience.

@Jonah_Gravenstein

You already can, a very large majority of gankers are freely engagable without a killright or Concord intervention, due to their security status

True.

[Anne_Dieu-le-veut]

@Fluffy_Moe

To me it seems the bounty system is too far sub-par of where it needs to be. The bounties are nearly completely not worth going after anyone and need to be very seriously adjusted, or on a dynamic reward system that somewhat scales with market values over time.

I honestly can’t think of any way to make a bounty system that’s not easily exploitable. If it’s profitable enough, people will go back to having alts collect their bounties. Maybe up the payout to base 25% of ship value and add Bounty Hunting skill that adds 5% per level?

[Ralph_King-Griffin]

the reason you dont see targeted hunting of individuals happening all that much anymore (for any purpose)
is that the tools for doing so are either outdated thefuck(im looking at you crimewatch) or have been gutted of any reasonable utility.

as it stands you cant know whether “shitehawk mc-ganker-face” or “fingers O’ im-going-to-take-everything-you-havent-nailed-to-the-floor” are online outside of sitting and watching their respective stations , pretty much constantly or knowing how to bullshite the ui in dreary and obscure boring ways to tell you.

now im not about to ask for the watch list back but a sizable chunk of what ye are all on about here were reasonable activities that ive done for both fun and profit when we had it.