A Circular Economy

Development Suggestion

CCP have spent a lot of time and effort recently trying to improve the economy and industries part in it .

My solution would be this .

Have all the NPC entities ( Empires, Concord, Rats, Corporations ) account for every ship they lose. Then have the entities buy those ships , modules etc. (or a percentage of depending on the math of whole of new eden) representing the fact player industry is supposed to be a major part of the overall percentage of industry in new eden .

This could be achieved by having them ‘buying’ sell orders as replacements from the nearest major marketing hub of the region ( these may need to be assigned constellation by constellation ) .

So what do mega corps themselves do then might be a point against this idea . I would say they are responsible for the food warmth and shelter of there employees , they are also primarily invovled in BPO production and research and development of new technologies and advances in technologies we already posses .

They hire us to do there security, logistics, etc. so why not have them actually use a percentage of the playerbases industry output as well .

This would take time in development , I understand , but it would create a more realistic economy for industrialists to work in .

A true player created industry . It might even effect how powerful each group becomes over time . That in a later iteration they might have NPC entities might have ‘budgets’ and ‘incomes’ and become more powerful or weaker as they buy and lose equipment . Like really playing against AI factions that can be ground down or allowed to florish depending on player action and industry

The main issue I think that would arise from this is that this becomes essentially another isk faucet. IE by having the game buying player items directly they are essentially “printing” isk. In general EVE as well as most MMO’s have faucet issues, which in generally just lead to more in game inflation.


So you want to “improve the economy” by eliminating a player driven economy? This is just creating vendor NPCs from most other MMORPGs that will buy up your items.

Why is “realism” something that all these shitty ideas try to strive for? Nowhere does CCP say that their intent is to have a realistic market in EVE Online. Not only is this not realistic, it’s not even the goal.


No I want to see a player driven economy that really provides for ALL of New Eden . Not unlimited vendor NPC’s but a more accurate rendering of the overall war economy of New Eden . Balance between Faucets and Sinks and it’s effects on inflation are a matter of balancing and the more realistic the economy as a whole the more balanced the game would be IMO

As for realism , realism leads to belief , belief leads to immersion . Surely every game company would love to have a more immersive game , wouldn’t they ?

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What an eloquent word salad.

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The same realism that has infinite isk to pay out in bounties? If you want realism then bounties should be based on taxes collected by Concord and divided based on threat level.

The Eve economy is already arguably the most realistic in gaming and CCP needs to be very careful with their adjustments.

The main change I would like to see is the replacement of bounties with redeemable tokens (i.e. overseers effects) that need to be looted from wrecks and transported to a CONCORD station for redemption. I would also like to see meta module drops from PVE replaced by named component drops players can use to manufacture the modules. CCP seems to be heading in this direction but it is a long road.


I’d entirely agree , infinite bounty purses are another good reason as to why NPC’s should have to justify and account for there own existence isk by isk

Which will never work out the way you are intending, given NPC’s literally appear out of mid-space.

You talk a good talk, but at the end of the day what you are trying to achieve doesn’t functionally do anything better than the current mechanics and adds a lot of back end crap that bloats the game processing with no real world benefit.

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Maybe start with a subset of NPC activity. How about NPC miners that actually mine. How about mining combat anoms or sigs where the ore and material can be raided after huge battles. How about actual players accepting contracts from NPC actors for mining or defense of bases.

There has to be a middle ground between a L4/L3 mission and a FOB.

The basis for your idea needs to anchored in support of new game play. For example if the local system(s) doesn’t / don’t keep the NPC mining industry from expanding, then it will take (some of) the asteroids, build ships, defend belts and crowd out the capsuleers - to a degree. Then others would be incented to curtail the expansion through conflict - CCPs dream outcome.

In this scenario you could balance the economic flows to scale the rise and fall of the NPC fleets, bases and industry. This would be a test bed and learning tool to incorporate other NPC activities into a circular system.

What I’d hope it might achieve is a breath of life not only into industry but into pve . Both of which are new bro friendly , a chance for CCP to attract and bind new customers into the Eve universe and challenging long term gaming for those who would like to see there actions have an effect on the landscape of new Eden without having to be a massive null sec alliance .

As for back end calculations , I think you over estimate the amount of proccesing involved and underestimate the power of modern computing power .

Except it doesn’t actually do anything, other than add programming work for CCP. What does it matter if an NPC buys your sell orders or another player? Does anyone on the market even look at who’s buying their stuff? (I sure don’t).

It also does nothing for PVE, unless you want NPC’s to start ganking you to make money or something. Or maybe taking your dropped loot and salvaging your ship when you die to them? That seems like it would be super popular.

So far you haven’t shown any way this makes any “noticable” difference to players. At best it adds “maybe” a roleplay feel without any actual gameplay difference.

Supposition. The bigger issue is what other features are you willing to give up. CCP already seems pretty busy with keeping the game going so a project of this magnitude would knock a whole lot of other features off the list.

Personally I’d much rather see them overhaul the very outdated mission system to something more dynamic. If you wanted something more immersive and something where the NPC’s could react based on what you do that would be better for PVE and “newbros” more than this proposal.

I’d entirely agree with you that missions need an overhaul , when I joined if you were committed to piratical activity you would end up with low sec status and banned out of high sec . Then they introduced concord tags , I personally think a lot more people would take up grinding missions if CCP introduced tags that you can trade in to heal your standings with the empires or at least reduce the standing loss to a level equal to the pirate factions , you lose 0.00 something fighting against pirates but 0.2 - 0.3 fighting empires .

As to my idea leading to no real change , I could see in later iterations the ability to have dynamic sec status for systems . Now it would have to take a long time , say a year per 0.1 but ultimately we the players could lessen , by piratical activity or raise through grinding anomalies/ missions etc changing the landscape of New Eden .

Also ultimately it could allow for some of the best pve in all gaming can you imagine 100 man fleets raiding factions main bases to try and reduce there production capabilities , maybe even defeating them permanently ( only to be replaced by other entities ) .

Eve online at its inception was a cutting edge mmo it retained that for many years and still is in pvp the best for massive battles, what I would like to see is pve be brought up to date , right to the cutting edge and to me the idea of dynamic enemy factions is the way to do this over the next few years . I’m sorry if you disagree with me , perhaps you have a better suggestion for the game as a whole , if so please share , you never know CCP might be listening and actually credit your idea with some thought and consideration .

As I say having factions and empires account for a percentage of there losses is only a first step into a more dynamic interactive universe that EVE online could so easily be at this point in time .

There are many missions aside from anti empire missions, and if you are concerned about losing empire status you can easily skip those. I HIGHLY doubt this is the major reason a lot more people don’t do more missions. (Boring, repetitive, poor isk/hr compared to other activities)

And none of this has anything to do with having NPC’s being more active in the economy.

Also potentially cool, but has nothing to do with NPC’s being more active in the economy.

Yes it was cutting edge from the beginning. However it’s PVE was NEVER a part of that cutting edge aspect. PVE was lackluster since the beginning. The PVE has never been the driver of EVE’s success.

Having NPC’s be more active in the economy will not be a selling point to it’s future success either.

Nothing in your post has ANYTHING to do with NPC’s accounting for their losses. Everything you brought up above could be implemented without this component. And this component does nothing to enhance the ideas in any way as explained.

The Trig storyline IMO was a great step in the right direction. It added a lot of dynamic NPC content. I’m sure not everyone loved every aspect, but it certainly shook up the world which I think was overall a good move. However to the point of this thread, they didn’t need to be active in the economy for that to work.

No I’d agree pve has never been a driver of Eve’s success it’s been quite the opposite its major downfall , why so many people try eve but don’t continue and CCP fails to retain subscriptions . Surely addressing these faults is the way to a more inclusive game instead of the ’ cult ’ pvp attraction .

Obviously you don’t share my vision of a ‘Next Gen’ mmo with a distinct colour of rts for pve players as well as pvp players. Nor do you seem to acknowledge this as a potential starting point for such . That’s fine everybody comes to the game for different things , I think it would be wise for CCP to spread its net wider than the hard-core pvp and crafting market personally. My idea is just one possible way they could start on the path to such .

I also believe that better pve is the key to a larger player base, better retention, more players joining and more players staying and improving the game . More players means more potential for a percentile to become involved in pvp and the more advanced games styles that eve caters for so well . It takes years to advance to a competent level in the game though and this IMHO is why so many new bros quit , if there was exciting , challenging and rewarding pve to experience then these players would have something exciting to experience during there early years . How this can be achieved and whether CCP acknowledge or choose to react to that is not up to me , my OP simply one idea that might start the game on the path to such .

Not at all true, and this illustrates more how you have been disingenuous in your arguments.

It is very simple so I will keep this short. You decided to create this thread with the basic premise that somehow NPC entities should be doing some sort of behind the scenes calculations and then buy stuff off the market.

This is not “next gen PVE” It is pointless. It does nothing outwardly noticable to the gameplay or workings of EVE.

Nobody in the market is going to even notice that their stuff got bought buy an NPC vs a player.

EVE to this day is one of the only if not the only MMO with a truly robust player driven economy. It works incredibly well. The only thing adding NPC’s into the mix is going to muck up it’s balance while providing no actual gameplay difference. Additionally throughout this thread you have changed up your arguments however you have not at any point defended how your idea actually makes a functional gameplay difference to the game.

I think what CCP did with the invasion was a great move towards more emergent “next gen” PVE. It was far from perfect but I think it was a great step in the right direction.

Your market idea however is dumb.

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Obviously if you just wish to call people dumb and disegenious I think we had just better agree to disagree .

The more I read OP’s bs, the more I’m convinced he made a dumb market play and bought a bunch of inventory when the price was high and now the price has come down, he’s stuck with it. Instead of admitting it was a bad play, he’s coming up with this convoluted idea to make NPCs buy his items. That way he can avoid liquidating his inventory at a loss.

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Damn rumbled lol . :laughing:

No. I called your idea dumb. Not you. By you trying to change that to me calling YOU dumb is disingenuous.

See how that works?