if you have a graph show it. I don’t see it. I stopped reading when you say there was a graph, and there was not a graph actually. You are in your own world, there is no discussion with you.
Small groups don’t have systems with 20 anoms. there is 20 anoms in a system BECAUSE many people are ratting there.
What you suggest would ■■■■ up small groups and not impact big groups. Period. I showed you you are wrong for inflation, and still you want to argue for the sake of being useless.
I know what is an isk sink.
I just don’t get why “if you have made alts sole for PI that means it should generate a large isk sink.” : just because I did alts for PI does not mean the isk sink will be important.
Concerning removal of a game functionnality :
There is a very clear definition : I pay for a service. I dont accept you ( @Sister Stetille )to tell me that the service is over.
I would FEEL robbed if you remove those PI alts. whether you understand it or not I don’t care, whether you have an analogy or not I don’t care either.
those are MY toons, my feelings, my money, you can’t tell that losing those toons is justice. and if you do you are an asshole and we have nothing to discuss.
And I’m pretty sure that confidence in CCP to not shut down our toons without compensation is what prevent many people from leaving the game. so IMO if you do this ■■■■■■■■ you are making less and less people pay for the game.
BTW your opinion leads to “let’s remove all pilots in eve this is justice”. When your reasoning leads to something stupid, you know there is something stupid in the reasoning.
The problem starts right here. This means people do anomaly and then afk for a while until anomalies respawn. And different types of anomalies have different respawn periods.
Nobody is going to do this.
In reality you have few people per system running top level anomalies. In -0.7 system 2 supercarriers cannot rat constantly - they get out of anomalies to run.
I don’t think I see your point here. You want to stop them stockpiling ISK, but It’s fine if they stockpile PLEX instead because they can’t control the market with that? I must argue against that logic for the reason that assets are soon to wealth.
As regarding your suggestion to tax all transactions: all transactions are already taxed.
I just gave 2B to my alt. he received 2B, I lost 2B. Not tax involved.
(or maybe it was 2M…)
for “stockpiling” please keep the context in check, and you’ll see my point.
in THIS context (my proposal) ISK have a fixed total sum and bounties/rewards are given in ratio to what remains in the undistributed pool. The limited nature of money would prevent inflation from being too high. BUT market manipulation would become possible because of this limtation, so measures would be needed to prevent people from ■■■■■■■ other people, THUS the isk stockpiling limitation.
IN THIS CONTEXT again, the plex would NOT be limited by a fixed number but by the players paying for it with RL money so there is no need to apply the same measures.
if this paragraph is too complex for you to understand, please don’t reply this would only be a waste of time. If you think this is biased however I’m sure you’ll find a way to correct me.
Ah, the tragedy of the commons yet again. Hey, what if… hmm, no, spawning acceleration gates would just be like null anoms anyways IIRC, nevermind, having each anomaly give you the bookmark of an acceleration gate as loot which would allow deeper raiding into higher-tiered sites wouldn’t really work that great.
Inflation is only visible in PLEX because Rorqual mining caused a big mineral deflation. Minerals are used for almost everything. For example Tritanium went from ~6 ISK down to ~3 ISK and is now slowly going up to ~5 ISK after all the Rorqual nerfs.
Traders and industrialits have still huge amounts of minerals stockpiled, so it will take quite a while until the cheap Rorqual minerals are out of the system and inflation becomes visible in other goods.
I totally agree, we should separate plex and material inflation.
Plex ‘inflation’ is largely due to it being an investor driven market, not because of money supply increase. Yes it has an impact but no it is not the main driver, because plex prices continued to increase steadily during months where we had deflation as well.
Don’t confuse the price of a good going up with inflation, they are not always linked factors.
Take a look at the Monthly Economic Reports. The CPI has been falling for 10 years. Player built structures and capital stockpiles are soaking up a lot of the raw material - the MER also shows Delve as a net importer - mineral prices in highsec tanked because Nullsec wasn’t buying as many. A good size war to kill a lot of that stuff will help but wars simply recirculate the ISK, they don’t remove it.
Assuming some of the ISK is going to RMT, we can hope CCP catches them - that’s one way to get a lot of ISK out of the game!
No, what will happen is the largest half a dozen entities will send one intelligent individual to a typical system to observe actual consumption rates, calculate the effect, and then they will conquer around the edges of their space sufficient extra systems to be able to maintain their current population, doing the things they like doing, and then every person in those corporations will hate you personally every time they have to move.
Not only that, I expect that the edge changes will be very orderly, with not a lot of fighting, because full weight of super fleets will be available (ie this is a map change that will be under super umbrellas), and its likely that medium scale entities will bend the knee, move away from the larger entity, and gain help conquering the equally revised lebensraum that they will need from the population of small entities, making for a lot of non-wars, involving orderly removal of structures and giving up of sov, except for the entities who find themselves out of a chair when the music stops.
Final result, less people per system in null, less entities in null.
I am also not entirely sure why people care about bounties. They also revised the consumption of minerals by structures, and they added meta, faction and t2 capital items and ships all of which are simply more resource intensive, all of which requires more isk to denominate.
If they wanted to increase destruction, all they need to do is to reduce jump fatigue, so that given some extending, super fleets can reach each other, instead of sitting in each corner of the map ratting.
What I mean by “fi you have made alts solely for PI that means it should generate a large ISK sink” is;
You are by far not the only guy to own PI alts. Assuming that you have 1 account with 3 PI alts that make you just enough to PLEX. Right now, all the money you make from PI is pretty much ISK-Neutral. This would mean that all the ISK you earn goes into PLEX which then gets depleted, therefore no ISK has really left the game. It has just traded hands between players.
Now if we moved all PI products to NPC commodities, the guy that use to buy from you would now buy from the market. This means every month, that same transaction would remove about 1.5b ISK from the game. Multiply that out by however many PI alts are in the game and you generate a massive ISK sink.
Just because I made several alts for PI does not mean I make a lot of money. I make a lot more money with my other toons actually and a lot more fun, so I set my PI alt to a non-optimal but very lazy production which allows me to have many items in sufficient quantities. Also I would need to make war in order to get pocos control so… no.
Also no for “This means every month, that same transaction would remove about 1.5b ISK from the game.” No reason for this, unless CCP fixes the price this way. In that case the next thing to do is to sell EVERYTHING at a given price at NPCs. Guess what ? this is the opposite of the vision of Eve, and the reason why you can make money as a trader.
I totally got all you posted before BUT the relation between “me making PI alts” and “the quality of the isk sink being big”. Everything else was trivial for me. but here I don’t see any relation between the two ideas.
This is not specific to just you, the quantity of the ISK sink would come from all PI being completed by all players.
And I did not say anything about removing the whole market. I am only suggesting removing a passive income source to create a large ISK sink.
you propose to remove the PI because it is a passive income, limited only by number of characters available, generating items and having a neutral impact on isk.
This statement is also true for most crafted items.
So following your notion of what is correct, it would also be correct to remove crafting of items (let’s say T1 items) in order to create an isk sink corresponding to the quantity of items which are destroyed .
Which of coure would also remove the interest for people to be traders because the prices would be fixed by ccp.
Actually following this the whole craft and the whole market should be removed in order to create a big isk sink.
And I say, that is what YOU are saying without knowing it.
In your sentence it IS directly related to me.
“if A, that means B” . A and B are related.
How is PI ISK neutral? How does it introduce any ISK?
It sinks it every time you rebuild your buildings and pay broker’s fees and taxes, but where is ISK created?
I have 3 PI accounts (9 characters, paid by CC) and would go apeshit if your proposal were implemented. Just: NO.
That is a nice example of Reductio ad absurdum, but yes if CCP thought they needed that level of ISK sink then we might as well just remove all manufacturing and make ever manufactured item into an NPC purchased good.
As for the SECOND argument that the removal of YOUR ability to perform PI is a large ISK sink, you are only part of the larger picture. What I am saying is that if EVERYONE that PI’s total production quantity was added up each month, that value would be large. Therefore if that income was no longer a Player to Player trade, but a Player to NPC trade, the total value of ISK taken out of the game (assuming CCP set the orders at the same average price as they currently are) it would be a large ISK sink.
What percentage of your monthly income from PI is dedicated to paying for buildings, broker fees, and taxes?
That’s for me to know.
Answer the question: at what point in PI does ISK get created?
I never said it does, I said for the most part it is ISK Neutral. In a given period of conducting PI, most ISK that is shuffled goes from one player to another, with a small portion being removed in the form of taxes and such.
That is why I asked for a percentage of your PI income that goes to these fees, I would assume it is a small portion of your overall monthly income or else it would not be worth the time to do PI.