A Question on Fitting for the Republic Fleet Firetail

I recently had this crazy idea for a Firetail with AB, scram, dual cap battery, and RAH armor rep multispec in the lows, with capacitor/fitting/range/tank rigs. I plan to use a neut in the highs.

Would it be better to go with artillery and fitting rigs in a shut-em-down approach to where I can pull to range, while being able to fend of kiters by tanking them and tickling them with arties, or should I fit autos with a falloff rig, giving me excellent tracking, good projection inside of scram range, and more fitting room?

This is theoretical as I don’t have the time or the ISK to test this out with multiple trials.

In my experience the Firetail needs all the help it can get. I’m assuming you’re wanting a discussion about 1v1 style scenarios.

If you’re bothering with spending PG fitting a neut then you want your damage to also be in that range, which is not going to be PG-hungry Artys unless you enjoy down-fitted Light Arty Cannons w/ Quake still missing every frigate with more than 500m/s transversal while in 4km neut range.

The typical arty firetail fit is usually flown at web-kiting range, so discussing this piloting method is doubly bad since A) web-kiting range makes the neut pointless as its beyond neut range and B) the fit under discussion has no web. At 8km distance – just under scram distance – your DPS of a down-fitted Light Arty w/ Quake is still going to be cut in half just by having a transversal of 1km/s because of tracking. So you’re gonna wanna sit still when you shoot. This implies you only want to fight super-close-range brawlers where 8km is outside their optimal+falloff damage application, and sitting still isn’t increasing their DPS application. Because other scram/web kiters will just blap you with their pulse / rockets while you sit still. But those brawlers are going to be AB+web fit themselves so without a web of your own, they’ll just close range anyway, making this piloting style moot.

If a kiter is already at range and maintaining range control with any respectable transversal over 1km/s, the poor tracking of Light or Howitzer artys is going to at best ranges cut your volley damage in half, and DPS accordingly. That tickle isn’t going to push them off of you. So best case scenario: You’re going to have to manually pilot to intermittently match their orbit’s velocity vector to reduce transversal as your artys come off cooldown. If you are comfortable with that skill (I personally am not) then more power to you.

Then, autocannon Firetail DPS is rather lackluster. It really needs the neut to shut down the opponent’s modules (preferably DPS modules) ASAP. The DPS benefits of hail are crippled by its poor tracking, meaning you have to sit still at close range to apply damage with Hail, which means any other brawling weapon system (rockets, blasters, pulse lasers) are going to win the DPS race. So you’re looking at the other ammos usually, and doing everything possible to neut them out. You’ll still probably have to do the usual “very choosy targets” and skilled piloting. For example, this can mean engaging brawlers, but sitting 20km away at full cap, and letting them spend cap burning over to you so they start at a cap disadvantage. It also can mean starting the frig fight with maximum transversal, and as their ship spends all its capacitor to deal mediocre damage, reducing your transversal and increasing the DPS pressure, as they’re unable to spend capacitor to monopolize on their better application.

In my experience, non-SAAR armor reps are generally unimpressive. If you can get it to work, I want to hear about it. :slight_smile:

For reference this was the fit I was looking at and analyzing. I didn’t even try to come up with an arty fit:

[Republic Fleet Firetail, wtf]

Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Small Armor Repairer II
Reactive Armor Hardener

Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Small Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery
Small Compact Pb-Acid Cap Battery

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I

Wow, thanks so much!

I am now seeing that the rep power is really poor, especially before RAH spool. If the dual rep Rifter has a hard time upfront tanking before RAH spool, then the single rep RFF will have it even worse. One could bling it, but at that point it’s better to fly something like a Pith C-Type Hookbill.

I mainly designed this fit as an anti-neut setup with good speed and decent tank to still take on most T1 stuff. I can now see that with the unimpressive application, tank, and control, it simply will not do anything but die in a ball of fire.

Thanks for the help, I loved reading your reply.

No problem, glad it could help. I have experience trying different things and dying in balls of fire repeatedly.

I will say one different thing I’ve done with a AC firetail that barely works is for antikite (slicers in particular) where those dudes have slapped nanos on most everything.

It feels like flying a crotch rocket and you wind up in structure just to tackle them (using up all shield buffer) but then settle into the under-the-gun orbit and slowly kill them. I don’t have the fit at hand but I believe that one uses a nos in the highs, so in theory it could also tackle a rail kite Comet (if those still have a defensive neut), but haven’t had the pleasure of running into that engagement.

But other than that, I haven’t had success with any other non-meta firetail ideas. Could be pilot issue though. :stuck_out_tongue:

you can try this. i dont like it all that much, but its better than the other suggestions/ideas

[Republic Fleet Firetail, shield buffer 200mm neut]

IFFA Compact Damage Control
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer
Counterbalanced Compact Gyrostabilizer

1MN Afterburner II
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler

200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S

Small EM Shield Reinforcer II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II
Small Core Defense Field Extender II

boosters and stuff to your liking/budget

after reading the initial post again, it seems i slightly missed the point, but at least the fit has a neut lol

what you are looking for is a cookiecutter rocket hookbill, or rail comet. those are super strong at scramkiting, can still project to pointrange and have the hp to outlast kiters. (just have the right ammo to do so)

in a firetail you have to optimize your fit for a certain range, pick your fights acordingly and avoid hookbills

Yea, I do enjoy the MSE Neut Firetail. It is my go-to for brawl. I do, however, more often take the TD-Autos nos SAAR fit or the dual web autos SAAR “Big Slasher” fit. For scramkite I do the 280 Arty one. This last one is the only Firetail with which I engage Hookbills.

I have never flown an antikite Firetail before, but I suspect it would be autocannons with MWD, MSE, Scram, AB mids and DCU, Gyro, Nano lows (or something like that) and an optional Nos. Speed and EM/Therm or Extender Rigs. Due to the high innate armor EM resists, a dualprop scram cap boosted DCU SAAR nano setup with bulkheads (T1 for cost) might be nice too.

Edit: One piloting style I love is entering in on a kiter and using AB to burn away (on other antikite ships I have flown) and warp off (or wait for them to burn in to where I can turn around fast). Then, when I try to enter later (~5 mins or so) they are more focused on the catch and will be much easier to tackle.