Any good fits for the Republic Fleet Firetail? (who can fight Rocket-Hookbills)

PvP Gameplay Center PvP Ships & Modules
1

Hello folks,

just asking around… I can’t to find a good fit for the Firetail. I encountered one Hookbill which needed literally a few seconds to totally destroy me while additionally comfortably tanking rats in a research node-site.

Like this one:
Caldari Navy Hookbill | Dig Graves | Killmail | zKillboard

Is there a good allrounder fit for the Firetail? I have no idea what to use for the third highslot… I try to create problems for my opponents but I die too quickly. Nanite Repair Paste takes too long to reload. During this time a Hookbill could kill me 2 times.

I’m into pvp since a very small time and everything I do feels not optimal.
I need one midslot for the Data Analyzer II for hacking these Research sites (Shipcaster Event).

Any ideas, hints?

Cab

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2

I’d try to go with this:

  • disable auto-repeat and auto-reload on the AAR
  • run the T2 repper from the start (not overheated)
  • pulse the AAR while it has paste (overheated!) to recover large chunks of armor
  • when out of paste, stop overheating the AAR, do NOT reload paste but keep tanking on cap
  • overheat the T2 repper instead as long as you need/can, but don’t burn it out!
  • watch out if he stops shooting you, he might change damage type from kinetic to explosive on reload, in this case reset your Reactive Hardener manually!
  • if things to bad, align out, keep him scrammed (overheat) and warp out once you are out of his scram range

You can comfortly tank him as long as you have paste and for a large degree even when running the AAR on capacitor. As long as you don’t run out of capboosters, he should not be able to kill you. But he should run out of buffer long before you are running out of sticks. Also you can leave any time, since you are faster than him.

Yes, it’s a bit more expensive than the Hookbill, but thats only because Armor Rigs are much more expensive than Shield Rigs, not much you can do about that.

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3

Hey man,

big thanks for the description to this fit and your thoughts regarding this.
I think I will need to train this nanite stuff up to Level V as well as Thermodynamics?

What distance shall I choose? It’s 3 Rocket Launchers are deadly in short-distance.
EMP S because the Hookbill rather is a shield-tank? Afterwards Phased Plasma to go against it’s armor?

Wouldn’t a TD incl. Tracking Speed Script do some magic against a Hookbill as well?
Tried a few fits even with Neut but the effects of it in a frig vs. frig fight wasn’t that great even if I managed to pop someone.

Cab

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Tracking Disruptors and Tracking Speed scripts are for enemy ships using guns. The Hookbill is using missiles. He will laugh at your application of a TD and know you wasted a mid slot for the fight.

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5

No.

Reloading projectile takes too much time in frigate fights. That’s ten whole seconds. You went through thousands of HP of an enemies shield buffer fit, you keep pounding away at his paper thin armor and hull and finish the job with the bullets you have in half the time it takes you to reload to another ammo.

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6

If you want to PvP on a regular basis, thats always a good idea.

Thats why you have such a huge activetank on the ship. Keep@Range 2000m. You will eat all his rocket damage anyway and your tank can hold it for a while. A reduction from your own speed against rockets is rather low, but your turrets profit from good application a lot, because you can do penetrating, smashing and wrecking hits (missiles can’t do that). So by keeping him in 1/3 falloff and shooting into his weakest resistance you will do very nice damage to him. It also ensures you don’t lose scram no matter if he is manually piloting or not. Keep your AB running but maybe reduce speed to 50% and your ship will always adapt faster to the maneuvers than he can move around to mess up your tracking or escape your scram (his MWD is shut off, he has no propmod during the engagement).

Note: Do not overheat your guns from the start, overheat them when his shield goes to around 30% to boost your damage while going over his peak-recharge point.

No, for reasons Io Korval already explained. You do more damage by just pounding hinto his Armor and Hull with EM, his main tank is shield anyway.

TDs don’t work vs missiles and neuts don’t work vs ship that have a passive tank and a weapon system that needs no cap. Like the Hookbill. A setup with TD/neuts would be something to bring against an active tanked gunship.

Watch this video to get a better overview how this dual-rep-capbooster-tank works, there is a rifter-fit that works similar:

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I did meet this Hookbill dude again, this time with the above mentioned Firetail. I couldn’t even get in range and he was pounding hard on me. I had to warp out, didn’t even scratch him.

Thanks for the detailed info, i appreciate this!

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Well, he couldn’t kill you, thats a first step :slight_smile:

  • do you have the skills for amor tanking and propulsion on level V? you should be able to slingshot him, the difference between his rocket range and your (overheated) scram range is not that big.
  • your reactive armor hardener will need time to adapt to his damage type. yes, you will go down to low armor pretty quickly but once you have 60% resist against his damage type it becomes much easier. But that also requires to have good skills in armor tanking.
  • did you use the drugs? exile and hardshell are mandatory to give the reactive hardener time to adapt.
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He couldn’t but I had to back down like wimp after trying again and feeling a bit bad about the Firetail.
Propulsion yes, Armor not yet (its on the plan but takes ages).

He uses a MWD so where I’m gonna go with my afterburner? Additionally, he webbed me. He seems to remember that I used Hail S up close. I did use the drugs before the fight on this site but never got to scratch him. He tried to lure me in a specific direction so that the rats go after me (Crows, Cheetahs), swarm me and he comes for the kill.

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Then it’s not the fit you linked above. Are you sure this guy has a Data Analyzer fitted when fighting him? You gimped your fit with sacrificing one of the most valuable slots (Medslot), if he has not but flies a full-PvP-fit (and not even counted that you are not fully skilled yet), the chances to kill him are pretty low.

You do a slingshot maneuver. Do you know what that is?

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Maybe it was the rats, they have scrams/webs etc. I was too busy fleeing because if they’d swarm me: I’m pretty much done.

I saw a YT vid regarding the slingshot maneuver now. I even used this to some degree to pull a frig towards me, using his momentum (flying towards me) to catch him after my quick 180 turn. That of course changes a few things. It’s unbelievable how comfy a Hookbill is while the Minmatar counterpart needs rocket science to kill this Punk-looking thing.

The problem is this:

The Research Node sites from the current shipcaster events are reachable by an Accelerator Gate. Once there, you stop amidst various rats using EWAR on you. You can’t warp out.
If you reach this site while someone already is there (like the Hookbill), it’s either you jump him while he’s dealing with the rats or you have to flee fast… or get killed because the rats attack you while the other dude uses his MWD to get away, just to come back for the kill. Slingshot won’t work. I only have one chance to stab him hard or flee.

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Well, in that scenario I only see the chance for you if you try to directly assault him, since he will escape anyway if you don’t hard-tackle him.

Warp in, Approach with overheated MWD, Scram+Web him and go full Yolo. You have way more eHP than he has, you can dictate range if you both web/scram each other because you are still faster. Stay at ~1500m and give it to him, hopefully the NPCs help or have already removed some of his buffer. Online the Data Analyzer once he and the NPCs are dead. If it doesn’t work out, overheat scram/web and escape with the MWD.

Downside is that you don’t have any active tank, so even if you can kill him, you might need to warp out and refit a repairer in order to kill the newly spawning NPC waves.

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13

Hey Syzygium,

I’ve tested this setup with the following results for yesterday:
xCabalx | Character | zKillboard

I did not have the feeling that I had some nasty opponents though. (if you could look at their fits please and confirm my statement). No Hookbill. I like this setup and the solution with the offline Data Analyzer but the true test still awaits incl. repeating similar “true test”-situations a few times to come to a conclusion.

Had to use a cheap implant because I was about -0.1 Powergrid in the red. I have quite a lot of basic-skilling in front of me. Concentrated in a lot of other areas during the many past years. The PVP experience just started now and it’s a blast…

What would I fit instead of the Data Analyzer II if I went out for PVP like Solo-FW? An AB (dual prop)? Or would just everything change? I know that there is not allrounder fit and the question might be too big.

You have opened my eyes quite a lot with the description on how to use these fits.

Btw, this is another dude Probe Fleet Issue | Geoff Alfrir | Killmail | zKillboard I got “to know” too. Ended two times in a capsule and received a few question marks above my head :slight_smile:

Greetings,
Cabal

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Well, I am by no means an Minmatar Expert, so I would leave full PvP advice to those who regular fly these ships. An easy PvP-adaption of the last fit would be this:

The DualWebs allow you to use Hail Ammo in very close range (~1000m) which greatly increases your damage output.

You will need a 2% PG implant with max skills to use this fit or remove the rocket launcher, I see no real options to free more PG without going too expensive (a 400mm ‘Bastion’ plate would cost like 40 million ISK…).

But beware: It’s made to catch people who use an MWD by surprise, means overheated approach, scram and then pump damage into them until they explode. You can also try waiting inside a site, directly catching people who are using the acceleration gate. You are fast enough to scram their MWD before they can pull enough range to kite you.

However, for an allround PvP advice, I suggest checking the zKillboard for the most successful Firetail Pilots and look which fits they use.

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15

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for yet another detailed info! It’s really an eye-opener and paved my way towards PVP. After the event I will seriously take FW into consideration (I’m aware that it will be a very different experience).

Would you call the Dramiel “a level up” from the Firetail or rather T2 Assault Frigs like the Wolf/Jag first?

I guess I’m doing “ok” so far. But it’s still too early to make conclusions because the crowd I’m fighting against is really mixed.

Screenshot 2023-04-17 124950

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The Dramiel would defnitely an “upgrade” in terms of performance, but on the other hand you will get probably less fights with it because less people will want to engage you and more people will run and dock/evade you when they see you.

Same for Wolf/Jaguar: you will have a harder time to get fights and/or will fight more difficult opponents if you get them. Which makes kills more valuable but also losses more costly.

Your decision. If I were you, I’d stay with the Firetail for a while and first learn how to use it to max efficiency against different opposing ships, maybe get myself some alternative fittings for it to be less predictable (Arty-Kiting for example).

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17

If you are going to sit in the plex, you can use an autocannon fit, med shield buffer, afterburner, scram, web. I remember reaching 250dps heated with hail.
Due most HB are armor tanked, your explosive damage with that dps is imposible to tank.
Start the combar at near as you can, It will try to pull range with its webbers, but will die around 3km-4km.

If the hookbill is sitting in the plex, it will double web you and will kill you pretty easy.
Simply don’t pick that combat.

— edit —
The buffer shield fit is similar to the previous armor fit, les control with one webber, but unstoppable dps, if the hookbill is armor tanked.
If the hookbill is shield tanked you probably will die, but its not a common fit.

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@Syzygium

Had an interesting encounter with a big-mouthed guy, his fit:
Imicus Navy Issue | Therin Darkstar | Killmail | zKillboard
(using Hornet II’s as wll)

Extremly tanky reg. the shield. Mine was melting instantly while the energized membrane II ate to much cap. Had 2 webs running on him because he could’ve dictated the range with his Stasis Webifier II. His shield was not even 50% down while my hull got damaged. I escaped somehow amidst the rats and his drones.

My fit was this one which I modified:

[Republic Fleet Firetail, Nero VII Block B]
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

200mm AutoCannon II
[Empty High slot]
200mm AutoCannon II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Hail S x800
Republic Fleet EMP S x1510
Agency ‘Pyrolancea’ DB3 Dose I x1
Synth Drop Booster x1
Republic Damage Booster x1

Even with all the boosters, I was anywhere near scatching him.
At some point, I thought of squeezing in a neut but dumped the idea:

[Republic Fleet Firetail, Experimental Assault Fit from Forum 4me2]
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
400mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier

200mm AutoCannon II
Small Energy Nosferatu II
200mm AutoCannon II

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

Agency ‘Pyrolancea’ DB3 Dose I x1
Synth Drop Booster x1
Republic Damage Booster x1

Most same-tier ships with a bit of experienced guys (regarding fits, not regarding flying), or even none, I’m up against just comfortably enter the fight while I’m on several boosters and on a verge of being destroyed.

Then there is this fit… but still it’s just passive:

Agency ‘Pyrolancea’ DB3 Dose I x1
Synth Drop Booster x1
Republic Damage Booster x1

How to crack such an Imicus amidst waves of rats with scrams/webs? Should I ignore his drones or attack him with a 2-web fit, webbing him and one of his drones?

@Perkutor_Jakuard
If the hookbill is shield tanked, why will I probably die? The above mentioned Imicus has some heavy shield in place as well. This guy “prepared it for me” and starting to act like a big time.

While several ships just enter the fight relaxed and with confidence, it seems that the Firetail has to back down several times in comparison to other same-tier ships.

EDIT: Took on another Imicus and died. The last time I managed to flee but not this time. I don’t know guys…

19

That’s not the fit he used if his shield was super tanky. I don’t know if your „reg“ means „regeneration“ or „regarding“. That fit has no buffer modules on it nor shield Regen modules on it.

There’s a polarized blaster Imicus Navy Issue fit out there that absolutely shreds with DPS. You probably encountered one of those.

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The firetail is on the slimmer side of engagement profiles. Chin up.

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