There should be an expansion to what alpha clones can fly.
My recommendation is to allow alpha clones to fly up to a dreadnought so that they can get a feel of what flying a capital ship actually is, in terms of usage and the importance of bringing fuel such as strontium.
Players can proceed to the supercapitals once they reach Omega
No. Alphas dont need to fly anything bigger than a battleship. They dont contribute any money to ccp in terms of subs so why should they get more toys to play with.
OK, I see.
In all honesty, Alphas don’t need to be given access to half the ships they already are…
Obvious troll is obvious.
Agreed. Though just as a thought experiment let’s consider OP’s idea: I say make a new dreadnought class just for alphas, that costs 500% of the omega versions but has 25% of the tank and DPS of them. 
Dread experts system. It will happen sooner or later anyway.
Free Dreadnought alts? To carry ships around or to pile on enemy capitals?
I really don’t think this is a good idea.
I request this thread be closed please.
This idea is called off
You need to at an ISD if you want them to close a thread. You can also edit your post and title to delete what you wrote.
If CCP wants to expand what Alphas can do, it should be in the realm of frigates, destroyers, and maybe cruisers. Give them the ability to fly those t1 ships to the fullest extent possible (max support, ship, and weapon skills.) And maybe give them access to interceptors.
Currently, if an alpha is flying around in space and an opportunity for pvp happens, the bold might go for the fight, however, the people more inclined toward risk aversion might flee due to the knowledge they’re at a disadvantage.
I don’t think Alphas should be able to fly any ship with perfect skills. Not frigates, nor any other type of gameplay.
Every type of gameplay should have benefit from going Omega, otherwise it would mean that if I wish to fly frigates, I’m wasting my subscription money as I could just as well fly it as Alpha without downsides.
I probably sound like a broken record, but SP totals and wallet sizes are neither sufficient nor necessary to get kills and win fights. The most important thing is player skill, and you’ll never improve that if you fall victim to the PvP-readiness fallacy, and avoid fights.
Indeed, numerous youtubers have made videos about getting kills on alpha accounts now. Thus, the biggest obstacle standing in newbros ways is not Gallente Frigate V, or what not, but in learning how to PvP. And that’s assuming you want to fight “fair.” If you want to punch down, then those missing skill levels matter even less.
@Shipwreck_Jones That’s not the argument I’m making. What I’m saying is there’s a natural inclination for some people that see the paywall, and then say, “f this, I’m out.” I experienced that when I played swtor years ago.
@Gerard_Amatin the same argument could be made for the current alpha gameplay, as shipwreck pointed out below you. (You can already fly frigs and get kills.) I don’t really think CCP has anything to lose from allowing alpha’s to fly t1 frigs to max capability. People who want to go Omega, are doing it for more than flying frigates.
What does CCP have to gain? The ability to tell their customers “you can fly frigs to their max capability without paying anything.” Which means it’s actually free to play without any pay to win. (My definition of pay to win is selling capability that can’t be earned through in game effort. Sure you can buy omega with in game money, but that power still has to be bought by a player.)
Alpha is already a way to onboard players into the game, to let them try it out and decide if they like it before buying. Artificially hamstringing the ships they can use just creates negative feelings. If anything, it makes more sense to get rid of their ability to use battleships and battlecruisers and then be able to fly t1 frigs, desies, and cruisers to max ability.
First, alphas are free. Thus, you have to be very careful what you give them, lest they be abused by players and RMT’ers. For example, cruisers are used for botting, so max cruiser skills would hurt the fight against botting and most certainly have economic ramifications. And, if you gave max frigate and/or destroyer skills, you’d probably see them used more for botting (i.e. abyssals, anomic agent missions).
Second, you can’t up the skill point passive training ceiling to account for these higher skill levels, because then that would interfere with SP farming. So, either you up the minimum amount of SP required to extract, or end up with a situation where alphas have to be extremely specialized in order to achieve their maximum potential. And that’s mostly going to benefit older players creating alts, and lead to alphas asking for more stuff (i.e. higher passive training ceilings, or the ability to respec for cheap).
Third, it’s not going to improve player retention or fun. Players who are put off by a paywall will still be put off by a paywall that is slightly further away, and it honestly does nothing to influence their ability to win fights, achieve goals, or have fun. That’s completely up to them, and the decisions that they make. And if they can’t figure that out with current alpha restrictions, they still won’t be able to figure it out with slightly loosened alpha restrictions.
Forth, as Amatin pointed out, you need to maintain reasons to go omega, or people won’t see any reason to go omega.
Fifth, the best way to deal with players falling victim to the PvP readiness fallacy is not to change the game in order to accommodate their misconceptions, but to try our best to disabuse them of their misconceptions. Yes, we will probably still lose people, but I’d rather lose people, than change the game for the worst.
Making t1 frigs, destroyers, and cruisers more effective isn’t going to make a significant impact on isk per hour when they already have access to battleships.
As for abyssals, If ccp ran encryption that generated a random name and spit out to the player’s client for the exit beacon id, bots wouldn’t be able to find the exit. Especially if there are other objects in the site that do the same thing.
The current skill cap is high enough. They can’t que train after 5 mil sp, but they can still obtain login rewards and daily sp kill awards. And even if it wasn’t, the solution to that challenge is to deal with sp farming directly, not limit what alphas have access to. (Ex: any sp gained while the account was alpha is ineligible for injection.)
The paywall for higher tier ships is a completely different situation than a paywall keeping you from making what you can use as effective as it can possibly be. They are different play styles. Entirely separate classes.
This is a blatant falsehood. I agree with you about the pvp readiness fallacy, but to state that higher dps isn’t going to help a player win a fight is just wrong. And winning fights increases that fun factor.
You’ve just spent paragraphs saying the suggestion wouldn’t be valuable to alphas, and now you’re trying to say the suggestion is taking away value from Omega? What is it? You can’t have it both ways.
There are hundreds of ships in EVE, a majority of which are locked behind a paywall. If you can’t figure out a reason why someone might want to have Omega, then I don’t know what to say to you.
Most other f2p games get away with increased xp rate (the equiv to that in EVE would be a faster training que) for their optional subscription. I’m not suggesting CCP adopt that, but really, the proffered suggestion is a far cry from what could be done.
This is a strawman. The suggestion is about optics, not about being 100% ready to engage in pvp. The new player coming into the game would know they have the potential to fly t1 frigs, destroyers, and cruisers to their fullest capabilities eventually and there are no artificial barriers in their way.
How is it making the game worse? It wont make the botting any more prevalent than it already is, as I’ve mentioned previously. I’ve given a suggestion on how to deal with sp farming. Its not taking value away from Omega since it offers plenty of value in other places. (Over the course of this conversation, I’ve even suggested taking more ships away from alphas than I suggested giving them. -bc/bs, +cepters if CCP was inclined to do so.)
Ultimately, for someone who has argued hard that Alphas don’t need the suggested idea to be effective, it seems like you believe they actually would become effective in some sort of game breaking way.
That makes no sense. If you increase the DPS of ships that they currently use, they will have a better isk efficiency. Full stop. This is just logically flawed.
Higher skills provide an advantage, however, that advantage is neither sufficient nor necessary in order to win fights or have fun. You’re looking at it wrong. See, if you pair an alpha merlin against an omega merlin, with all other things being equal, then yes, the omega will win. But this is Eve, which means that (1) there is absolutely nothing saying that you have to take a fight that you don’t like, and (2) there is absolutely nothing saying that you have to fight fair. So, you know, maybe don’t try to take fights that you can’t win, and then complain that you lost because the omega had the advantage. Instead, learn engagement profiles, how to fight different ships based on what you’re flying, how to dictate the terms of engagement, and how to avoid fights that you can’t win. Or… you know… just do what I do and punch down.
Blatant falseood… pfft. The people who think character skill matter are the players that lack player skill… and, just to be absolutely clear, knowing who to fight, when to fight, how to fight, and how to avoid fights that you don’t want to take is part of player skill.
I didn’t say that it would offer value to alphas. I said they don’t need it to have fun or get kills. I feel nostalgia for my first car, have been thinking about buying one, and it would certainly have value to me. But I don’t need it to have fun or get kills, because I am more than capable of running people over with my truck.
So, if you want the value of paying for an omega, pony up for a sub, or grind the plex. Otherwise, have fun with the free account.
Just because you disagree with me, doesn’t make it a strawman. I honestly believe that giving alphas more stuff won’t fix anything, and create more problems that make the game worse.
It will definitely increase their isk efficiency, which will lead to inflation, and can, in fact, possibly lead to an increase in botting. See, RMT’ers don’t hold loyalties to any particular games, and will instead follow the money. So, if you make RMT’ing more profitable in Eve, it can lead to more botting. In fact, CCP has actually reduced alpha skills (i.e. Drone Interfacing IV → III) and banned them from certain activities (i.e. level IV missions) in order to combat RMT. Thus, giving alphas more skills, might not only benefit RMT’ers, but also might result in alphas needing to banned from activities that they currently enjoy.
Finally, I’m not worried about what new players will do with free alphas. I’m worried about what vets will do with them. I can’t remember the exact spelling, but it’s known as “mechanus’s” law, or something like that. It basically states that any change designed to benefit newbros will undoubtedly benefit vets more.
So, a good example of this is when people suggest that alphas be given the ability to do P.I. Yes, it would give alphas a semi-passive income stream, but it would allow vets to spool up vast P.I. farms that send the value of P.I. plummeting. But there can even be problems outside of economic ramifications. For example, various groups have skilled up alpha alts in order to more easily participate in fights and conflicts in different parts of the map. This basically allows them to circumvent travel logistics, but comes at a cost of reduced combat power. Thus, upping alpha power would buff this strat, and move Eve more and more towards something resembling a fast travel system (assuming you’re willing to train up and juggle the extra alpha accounts).
Edit: Oh, and before you say anything, yes I am aware of jump clones. However, that system also has limitations and drawbacks, and I’m not exactly a huge fan of fast travel in Eve in any form. In other words, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Alphas can’t be given anything that generates passive ISK. This is also why all rewards such as boosters and skins are instantly applied. If not, then everyone and their dog would create 1,000 Alpha accounts…
An alpha praxis can do 1300 dps. With the changes I suggested, alphas wont hit that.
Say what you want, but your statement was still false.
Alpha’s can also have fun by not engaging in pvp, but I imagine most Omega players who engage in pvp would rather alphas would. Its silly to make the argument of what players “need” as a bare minimum in order to have fun. That’s not how you make your game thrive. EVE doesn’t need alphas at all, so with your logic, we could just delete alpha clones.
When you characterize the argument as something it is not, and then attack that characterization, its a strawman.
No it wont. Alphas can already output quite a bit of dps with praxis builds. If you’re concerned about abyssals and can’t find a way to prevent bots from running it (which I’m doubtful of) then just lock alphas out of the feature. Make t4 and above omega only.
If botting would be an issue with increased efficiency, it will be an issue regardless of the change.
The solution to RMT botting is to make pve more engaging. That’s part of the reason why npcs eat drones now. The big groups engaging in RMT will probably be using carriers anyway, it’s far more profitable than using alpha accounts.
Sure, alphas are free, but it still takes time to skill up those characters. Especially when you get past the 5m skill soft cap.
So lock them out of using battleships and battlecruisers.
Besides, it’s not like players can’t already do that with paid accounts. Sure, it gives money to to CCP, but that’s a moot point when you’re talking about force projection balance. And the money to plex a few extra accounts really isn’t an issue when you’re talking about alliance level income (which is who would be using the tactic you mentioned.)
I understand what you’re saying, but allowing access to an entirely different gameplay loop / feature is a completely different situation from allowing players to be more effective in what they’re already doing. So it’s hardly a good example for what we’re talking about here.
No one in this thread has suggested alphas be given ways to generate passive isk.