And now for something completely different

(Aria Jenneth) #21

So, taken literally, strength is a type of power. Taken metaphorically, though, they can be synonyms: strength is power and power is strength.

As for honor: honor you can’t uphold-- that is, for example, you make the attempt but fail-- is honor still. Really, I’d consider someone who strives to live up to what they see as honorable, even lacking the strength, as all the more honorable for that reason. Maybe a little impractical, but it seems like mostly what “honor” is usually for is to make a person reliable in certain ways, hence suitable for use by others who need someone to fill a role.

There might be some ways of being weak that would undermine honor badly, though. Cowardice, for example, would probably make it hard, but that might be describable as a weakness in honor even more than in a form of power. Then also, honor (like most things) can be described in terms of power dynamics.


And yet here you are trying.

The stories we tell both reflect and develop who we are. The stories we tell while drunk might reflect us more than most.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #22

I asked questions about your opinions. It is hardly the same as defending something?

(Aria Jenneth) #23

That depends on whether the question is wholly or partially rhetorical, or otherwise part of argument. Usually one that can be taken that way will be, unless there’s a statement made somewhere along the lines of, “Well, you’re not wrong. A question, though …”

In general: I attacked your story, and one of your … ah, “incompletes.” It’s natural for me to expect that you’d defend it, and trying to poke holes in my reasoning by asking probing questions is a natural way to approach that.

If we’re just discussing stuff, though … hm.

So, part of why I’m making such concerned noises might be that the virtues I believe in are also a set of four “incompletes”: humility; moderation; compassion; curiosity. They’re not really a ring or anything; they don’t balance each other in any particular order, and having a shortage of any of them isn’t good, since even, say, a humble, compassionate, and curious person can cause a lot of trouble by acting without moderation.

Likewise, about the closest I get to “an evil person” is someone who manages to simultaneously be arrogant, extreme, callous, and incurious.

Then, also, I’ve of course seen a bit of the Sabik since I’ve been in the Empire, and they do indeed make a virtue out of power. Actually, usually it’s the only virtue they really practice, and the idea, “power matters,” is not so much wrong except they take it to be the only thing that does, and it’s narrow and limited and the practical effects are HORRIBLE.

So. Got a little concern about seeing … echoes of such an idea. Particularly on the lips of an influential person.

I’m aware that you didn’t leave it as a virtue in isolation like that, but basically as a thing to seek, power doesn’t feel like it needs any help with its marketing.

(Jocca Quinn) #24

Ahhhh, indeed whenever I want an … epiphany I turn to some Celestial Caravan Select.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #25

As to my beliefs, I do not believe there is any one set of ‘desirables’ or ‘pillars of character’ or however you wish to call them - I shy away from the word ‘virtue’ for its religious connotations - that is the correct one for everyone.

There naturally are sets that are terrible in any case, such as the one you mentioned: power alone. But there are many sets of ‘incompletes’ that can work, and which one is the correct one depends on the person. Depends on their Mark, their Fate, if you are Matari; but probably varies by person for adult foreigners too.

(Aria Jenneth) #26

Hm. So … this is going to seem a little weird, but …

On the one hand, I do agree in principle with the usual Caldari view on other people’s beliefs and value systems, which kind of boils down to, “Do what works for you.”

On the other hand I’ve also noticed that ideas about what makes a good person don’t actually vary around the cluster as much as you’d think considering all the stuff people disagree about. It might even be possible to come up with a set of “virtues” people might agree to. Or maybe not quite.

Either way, I don’t normally have a problem with people following their own sincerely-held beliefs. But, maybe we’re not really as different as sometimes it seems like we want to think of ourselves as being.

(Hevaima Gesakaarin) #27

If only life was so simple without complexities.

(Diana Kim) #28

I don’t have a problem with people holding to their beliefs… as long as these beliefs don’t involve enforcing them on others. Gallente do that, enforcing their democracies, freedoms and similar useless crap on others. Minmatars do that, fighting Empire to remove their slavery while they have their own. Even Amarr did that when they were reclaiming everyone around them… Luckily, that changed in the past, thanks to the rule of Heideran VII.