Collaborators gonna collaborate I guess…
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Galm, I’d advise, as a friend, taking a step back.
Tribal law is still the law of the land in Matari space. It is overly specific and at the same time overly vague, filled with loopholes, weighted with traditions and formalities.
It IS FRUSTRATING… but frankly no more frustrating than the political systems of my own home. Navigating The political systems and legalities therein is just as important as pushing through toward final objectives.
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Well then. It seems our dear friend Efrit got another ‘promotion’.
That in mind, knowing more about the situation groundside with some millions of civilians still trapped, I will be restarting evacuations, even with Svarog activities, and Efrit remaining at large groundside I’ll take the risks.
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That’s not a promotion. He was already in charge of forces there. It’s just an acknowledgement that he’s basically under orders to keep fighting until he’s dead.
He’s being written off as KIA ahead of time, in a way that honors the sacrifice he’s expected to become.
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Hence the quotations.
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In our time in Skarkon I have attempted to have Kril Efrit bombed, shot, poisoned, buried alive, glassed, gassed, drowned, and pounded into a fine mash. Yet still he persists like a bad rash.
I hope you’re right and this lateral promotion is just an honorific death sentence, because I’m starting to think Kril Efrit is like a venereal disease; you can’t get rid of it, just beat it down until it crops up again.
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If you’d like, I’d like to discuss coordination of efforts on a more secure channel.
Not even trying to be a smartass on this, just offering some sincere advice because I’ve been concerned and disturbed by ongoing and avoidable civilian loses.
Maybe evacuation efforts would go more smoothly if they were lead by an outside neutral party like the United Neopian Federation rather than active combatants like EDENCOM. By blurring the line between military and civilian targets at best you’re putting those you are trying to protect in harm’s way and at worse (it can be argued anyway) you’re hiding forces behind civilians and the guise of evacuations to protect your own military assets and troop movements.
Its a conflict of interest that has plagued this war, and one we should squash immediately now that it has mostly subsided.
Let’s be clear here: I am not saying, in any way, that the Republic has given him a death sentence. Your new allies and overlords did that. The Republic is simply bestowing upon him the honors befitting his new position: a prisoner, whose only way out is a fight he likely cannot win.
Yeah, because the Trigs haven’t shot civilian ships up whenever the impulse takes them. And void knows the amoral capsuleer pieces of crap who work with the Trigs aren’t a bunch of kill-hungry fucktards, right? Maybe the guy talking up how many times he tried to have the legitimate government of the system murdered isn’t the right one to talk about how to secure evacuation efforts.
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To my knowledge, every civilian Bowhead destroyed attempting to evacuate Skarkon were being piloted with IFF signatures identifying them as Seykal Clan, who have openly been a part of the EDENCOM tribal resistance movement in the system. These same bowhead flights were originally guided by an armed EDENCOM escort fleet.
You see the problem here yes? I’m deliberately trying not to be antagonistic here since this is an important point I haven’t heard anyone bring up yet. Blurring the line between civilian and military targets is massively problematic.
There is no problem with the organization tasked with overseeing and organizing local forces to protect people and fight off the invaders doing one of its jobs.
Each of the empires is at least affiliated with EDENCOM so you’d hear that sort of nonsense excuse no matter who they sent to help the people. And don’t get me started about independent capsuleers - Triglavians’ll shoot at all of us who didn’t bend the knee to them.
This is not an equal conflict with two valid sides. You have violent invaders on one hand and those trying to resist them and help those affected by them on the other.
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Ideologically I’m sure you think you’re right. Pragmatically, its a bit more important to follow whatever action course is less likely to get more civilians killed. With Triglavians normalizing relations and offering incentives for destroying rogue drone hives and Drifter fleets alike plenty of independent capsuleers exist neutral to both EDENCOM and the Triglavian Collective are perfectly capable of evacuating civilians without any conflict rather than launching a bloody EDENCOM incursion of Triglavian space that will put civilians in the crossfire.
No, see, that would be a consistent response. We’ve long-since established that the Trigs’ responses to evacuation efforts have been inconsistent.
That means they can’t be trusted to not shoot at unarmed ships in unaligned colors. And risking the lives of thousands of civilians by sending transports through without armed defense forces would be unconscionable. There is no issue of ‘blurring the lines’ here: the Trigs have attacked civilian ships, unprovoked, during their unprovoked assaults on civilian populations as part of their unprovoked invasion of populated system.
But that’s just the Trigs themselves, and doesn’t address the other half of my point: the kill-happy capsuleers who do things like perma-camp the honeypot mission agent the Trigs set out to attract flies for the kybers to murder help newcomers ‘prove their flow’.
You don’t take chances when that many lives are at stake, and you don’t go saying ‘oh, well, maybe the invading murderers will ignore us… and maybe Kybers will decide not to go after the easy kills’. And maybe Diana Kim will marry a Gallente hedonist and settle down to a life of quiet debauchery.
Of the three, I think that last one’s actually more reliable.
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Have civilian rescue efforts ever attempt to negotiate evacuations with Kybernaut forces? Because I would be happy to negotiate and escort a civilian rescue attempt with neutral parties to get them safely in and out of system. I will do this if asked, and I am confident our coalition would respect that.
Instead it seems instead of even attempting that you’re going to very far lengths to justify putting civilian lives in conveniently close proximity to all of your guns. Hmm. Funny, that.
Tell you what: when you can get all of the Kybers to speak with a unified voice and respect diplomatic efforts, maybe it’ll be worth opening diplomatic talks with them. But right now, they don’t. And they don’t. So it’s not.
But before it makes any sense at all to allow transports to go in unescorted, they’d have to go beyond just ‘we won’t shoot’. They’d have to guarantee the safety of the transports. That means fleet logistics on-hand to support the transports, as well as combat vessels there to defend against incursion by hostiles, be they drones, drifters, kybers, or trigs.
So now you’re suggesting that people who fought to defend New Eden from the Trig invasion would put hundreds of millions, if not billions, of ISK in harm’s way, through limited-access avenues like wormhole chains, under the guns of hostile kybers, trigs, drifters, and drones… just to shoot civilians?
What the actual is wrong with you?
He did not imply that. He implied it suspicious putting large amounts of military assets around civilians, as you could just as easily be moving in military material while evacuating civilians, thus blurring the lines further.
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Mmm, no. No, he definitely wasn’t talking about moving military material in. And there’d be no reason to have anything but the transports descend to the planet’s surface, now would there? After all, we’re still talking about the same transports that would be used without the escort fleet, so they’d be just as open to inspection upon landing.
The only additional ‘all your guns’ that the escort fleet entails… are the guns of the escort fleet. So unless you’re suggesting an incursion group would need transports to get in… which it wouldn’t… or would expect to not get shot at by hostiles just because it’s escorting transports… which, again, it wouldn’t… I fail to see where the presence of an escort fleet actually provides any additional capability for moving war materiel in, or how the presence of transports in any way increases the combat capabilities of an incursion group.
This speaks more towards an ignorance over the internal mechanisms of T space politics than any valid retort. At this moment, Skarkon lies squarely under the stewardship of the Raravoss Proving Ground coalition which in turn has diplomatic inroads to the kybernaut clades of Krai Veles. I can act as a diplomat to coordinate entry for neutrals, and have successfully done so in the past. The fact you arent aware of that reinforces that no attempts have been made to resolve this diplomatically in any fashion and I’ll take any argument otherwise about it being impossible as a bad faith argument.
And there alternative solutions to this other than an awfully convent totally-not-a-counter-offensive fleet. We could escort the neutrals ourselves, or guide them half way. Theres plenty of options here you purposefully aren’t considering.
Precisely this. Its no coincidence or mix up that Kril Efrit declared any evacuation efforts by the Bosena Accords would be seen as illegal slaving. EDENCOM propaganda and indeed battle doctrine seems reliant on using civilian defense as an ideological and literal shield as well as a convent excuse for obscuring troop movements and any evacuation involving a joint Kybernaut and EDENCOM loyalist diplomatic effort threatens that.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t independents acting in those systems. In fact, I can pretty easily guarantee there are.
You could escort the EDENCOM transports, too. Hell, you could meet the entire EDENCOM escort group with overwhelming force and then demonstrate that you don’t oppose evacuation efforts by not shooting them. After all, if you have overwhelming force, you don’t have to worry about what they’re doing, do you? But they don’t have to leave the transports undefended, in case you prove as faithless as you have in the past.
A bunch of outsiders who’d been actively making war upon the legal and legitimate government of the system, hauling our people off to who-knows-where with no previously agreed-upon monitoring or escort? You’re damned right that should be seen as illegal slaving. Hell, the whole damned ‘we’ll support the invaders now and work to help them make your people into something else’ doesn’t exactly weaken the case for labeling you a bunch of slavers.
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I will put this simply then; organizations that have historically been hostile to kybernauts and are marked red are liable to be shot. Neutral powers exist that are not red that are capable of defending themselves and are far less likely to be shot.
Its as simple as that no matter how you try to argue around it.