Bounty Hunting 2.0

Hi All I’m Drogon and I’ve been playing EVE On and off over the years. a short while ago i had been flying in LORDE and while in LORDE i would actively talk to my comrades in space about Bounty Hunting. why you might ask? because in this glorious game we all play and share together, i have always wanted to be a bounty hunter.
naturally everyone talks about how its not practical and all the flaws with it and unfortunately like many things in life, people are always quick to point out flaws in something, rather then coming up with a solution.

so during my time in Lorde, i spent more time on comms talking abotu bounty hunting, and learning combat mechanics, war mechanics, to ultimately figure out the best ways to get my targets. needless to say it was a headache and i ended up agreeing with the majority of the player base that bounty hunting needs to be reworked.

however during the time working on this bounty hunting was actually tempoarily removed from the game and this genuinely disheartened me, i do feel very strongly about the need for bounty hunters within the EVE Online player Ecosystem.

so i spent some time, finding out all the problems with the system players had faced and decided to reach out to a few people to get some feedback, genuinely so far the response has been well recieved for my ideas, so i began to write it down and finally spoke to someone at CCP about it, they also in fact seemed to really like the solution i had come up with, which was to instead of completely overhauling, using exisiting game features and mechanics to eliminate the problems experienced in game, i did have some other thoughts which i put into the work to make the game seem more political and have things such as personal standings become more applicable to day to day activity and game play.

so below i will post my ideas and in all honesty i would really love it if people could give me honest and genuine feed back about it, i’m not going to say its a perfect solution, but i do feel that this is definately steering things into a more practical path for players to experience bounty hunting within EVE online.

I origonally created a word document but i cannot upload it directly here. so i will have to copy and paste it here below:

Bounty Hunting V2.0

This Document is To see how to improve on the current system, we should first look at the issues that make player bounty hunting within EvE unenjoyable.

  1. The Kill Right Scam
  2. High isk bounties on people in NPC corporations
  3. lack of available Kill rights
  4. a general over charging bounty hunters for kill right usage

Kill Right Scam
The Kill Right scam is pretty straight forward, sit out in space with a kill right on you, be in a shiny ship, but have an extortionate amount of ISK set as the kill right, letting naive players think they can get a shiny kill mail.

Solution:
This is an easy fix, keep the system in place basically as it is, however place a cap on how high kill rights can go to. 1 Isk – 1 million isk for example

Lack Of Available Kill Rights:
if someone ganks you, you have every right to track them down and put the hurt on them and do it yourself. However kill rights only last for 30 days and you can only do it ONCE, after that you’ve missed your chance. If you’re a 3rd party and the player doesn’t share the kill right then you can’t get the kill and even if they did, there would likely be an extortionate amount placed on activating it.

Solution:
Implement an agent or perhaps some kind of system within the bounty office (ideally through an agent) where you can request a kill right.

Who is a target?
Anyone with a bounty

what is a target list?
a target list is in essence a list of people you are actively hunting, the idea being you can request kill rights on people with desirable bounties on their heads. Those people will automatically be added to a quick bar in the bounty office. The quick bar will display your targets names and how long your kill rights have left before they expire, once they expire you can use this quick bar menu to request another kill right on the target, avoiding the hassle of repeating the process over and over again.

Allowing bounty hunters to find targets, add names to a quick bar menu where the push of a button will request kill rights or a show you how long your kill right has left and if it is used or expired and there is still a bounty, you can simply request another one.

how it works:
anyone with a bounty regardless of weather or not in an NPC corporation can be added to this list, this is effectively a quick access list for bounty hunters on the go, allowing them to simply click a button to request a kill right.

Generating the kill right takes 24 hours (this could be liable to change)
After the kill right is activated weather or not your target is successfully killed by you is another matter, however that kill right has been spent.
As a bounty hunter you could then simply open up your window and “request a kill right” on your target again, which takes 24 hours to generate

Why does it take 24 hours to generate?
The reason why it takes 24 hours to generate a new kill right is to prevent excessive griefing an unwarranted harassment from players, that one specific bounty hunter is then prohibited from engaging with that specific target for the next 24 Hours. However this doesn’t mean if there is another bounty hunter who wants the same target, they cannot get them. It also prevents people from using their alt character right away to get the bounty payment

So are people without bounties targets?
No, people without bounties represent the good and honest or even dishonest (depending on sec status) people of new Eden, you maybe a criminal for example but there’s no bounty on your head there for you’re not a viable target

But The Pay out is still horrible, its not worth the Isk Per Hour, you hardly get anything!
With this comment there are some main factors involves which I need to address

  1. Initial Cost

  2. Payment Calculations

  3. who actually gets paid

  4. as suggested and if implemented the changes towards introducing an isk limit on activating kill rights (as well as fee for their generation) it opens up the entire game of people who have bounties on their heads who cannot be hidden in NPC corporations. Allowing targets to simply be singled out from the masses in a controlled fashion to prevent massive frustration on behalf of the victim. Creates a wider margin of target-able characters at an affordable cost.

2) Payment Calculations:
currently the payment calculation is 25% of the assets lost, as a result with the current system people with large bounties sit in space in low value ships with further inflated kill right activation costs, making it frustrating for the bounty hunter as the system doesn’t work in their favour. What I propose is a new form of calculation regarding the pay out system and a new “performance bonus” feature naturally any and all isk payouts as will be capped by the limit of the bounty, so if you end up clearing the whole bounty, that’s a good pay day.

to make bounty hunting more applicable to the bounty hunter in question, much like in the real world I propose that a percentage of no greater than 10% be awarded to the bounty hunter from the total amount of the available bounty on the target’s head, this will be factored in as a “base payment”
followed by a 65% of the total loss value of the ship in question
upon a successful kill, a further 20% could be awarded to the player as a performance bonus
to encourage pod killing after you’ve just lost what could possibly be a very expensive ship and you’re tasting the sweet liquid in your pod, a further 20% bonus to further humiliate your opponent by making their corpse taste the vacuum of space and letting the person who placed the bounty know that they’re problem is being handled by a pro.

total bounty (100 Mil) + (50 mil ship +15 mil in fittings: total 65mil)
10,000,000 (10% total bounty value)

  • 42,250,000 (65% loss value)
    = 52,250,000
    10,450,000 (20% performance bonus)
    total payout 62,700,000 (not counting any extra pay out due to clone implants)
    Clone Implants would be the same percentage as 65% loss value and paid into your bounty payment

that takes care of some of the major problems at the moment as they stand.
Now let me throw in some ideas to help improve the dynamic within bounty hunting

3) who actually gets paid
well with the proposed payment system in place, lets consider one thing for a moment, why should a random ganker, get the benefit of being paid for ganking, when that is not within the nature or the intention of the bounty hunting system.

        My thoughts on who should actually get paid are the people who've requested kill rights on           
        others due to the fact there is a bounty on their heads, this will actually create a degree of                
        separation and game play within the player base effecting separating out bounty hunters
        from the gankers and awoxers carving out a well defined area of game play and style of  
        operation from the rest of the community, creating a now much better defined sub group
        within the community 

for fleet kills your total pay out calculation COULD be spread across the total number of fleet members who are on grid with you. This way you can have larger fleets, but small gangs or squads on grids or chasing down targets without it being distributed across all fleet members. But this is then liable to change.

Pay Off Bounty at specific location’s
so this is pretty straight forward, you have a bounty on you, and you don’t want It there. So you speak to an agent to remove it, at variable prices depending on your own personal sec status and the region of space you’re in
high sec status people in 1.0 regions of space could get a 1:1 ratio perhaps with a 10% “administrative fee” but having a good sec status in Nullsec with an agent there could be a different ratio to pay it off and a further increase of “administrative costs” making unfriendly regions based on sec status more expensive to clear off your debts

why do this?
this would actually cause people to jump clone into different regions of space to pay off the fee
agents who can do this should not be at a station which has a clone bay.

Bounty Agent & Benefits

  • Contacting your Locator agents / working as a locator agent
  • Explaining Kill Right Caps
  • Explaining standing Restrictions for bounties
  • Requesting & monitoring kill rights (quick bar / target list)

Bounty Hunting Vs Wardecs:
so between edits of this document the concept of placing bounties on corporations and alliances have come up in conversation. And people have said “if this new system is so specific, how do you get the bounty on a corporation?” and this made me stop and realise, that honestly through all my research and thus going back and checking even now as I write this, other than for “gangs” of people I have never come across a bounty being placed on an a organisation, business, structure vehicle or anything else of the sort. In fact this in the context of gang warfare would then over lap into criminal damages and such, which means based on this approach to getting your individual target there is no way to get a bounty pay out from alliances or corporations, you would be engaging in skirmish / guerilla warfare at this point and also structure bashing in game, and honestly this is not the work of a bounty hunter, this is the work of a mercenary.
Given there is a minimum fee for wardecs in eve online, this would also then have to be effectively doubled to make it worth the while of any mercenary who were to get involved.

Is this a problem?
Sort of, it means that Bounty hunters would have to switch between Mercenary work and hunting specific targets, this would lead to very good game play for some interested in the two.
However it does then create specifically a unique pricing structure towards players, corps and alliances.

Pricing:
if it costs 100 mil per week for a wardec, the minimum bounty placed should then be 200 mil making it profitable for anyone who wants to take on that job.
To found an Alliance costs 1 billion, thus it should be 2 Billion as a minimum
Mercenaries will naturally and organically jump on these war decs due to the pricing structure being profitable as a result it is profitable for them and creates and organic response from players in the game.

Solution:
as it currently stands within the system of bounty hunting, “anything which generates a kill mail gets a bounty pay out” this would no longer be the case further more the way the bounty system stands at the moment requires an individual’s bounty pool to be drained first BEFORE a corporation and then Before an alliance’s

my solution would be to reverse the process, starting with the alliance pool, then the corporation pool, then the individual pool. Due to the nature of mercenary work, bounty pay outs should also be paid to people who have declared war on each other, other wise you’re just a ganker, you’re not a bounty hunter or a mercenary, you’re just an asshole.

The principle idea of reversing the structure is so that if an alliance has a large bounty, its members and structures are likely to be hit and hit HARD which will put the hurt on them, possibly so much so that the alliance dissolves, this is also true for corporations, depending on the pay out system. Meaning even if someone in the corporation has a large target on their heads, they’re still vulnerable to then be later hunted by a lone bounty hunter. I feel that given the nature of the game, its mechanics, costs of wars and such this structure suits the nature of the game in itself much better.

In the current system if you declare war on an alliance you would have to drain indivual’s bounty pools first, before the corps then before the alliance, this would mean only truly sizeable bounties which are now scaled with a new minimum payment system (of which the minimum payment is now profitable for most) would truly bring a scale of warfare to the game the likes of which would have never been seen before, it separates out gankers and awoxers (as people who do not get paid for these actions), from professional lone wolf bounty hunters to small bounty hunting corporations. and the same mechanics in essence support directly the encorporation of Mercenary work for engaging corporations and alliances on a total scale. It also helps those lone wolf bounty hunters advance themselves in their careers in game, allowing them to try new things, progress and have communication with people.

Additional Ideas:
Conflicting interests:
this one is simple, if you put a bounty on someone, you cannot request the kill right on the person yourself, the concept being that it creates a conflict of interest, if you want someone else to suffer, sure you can do it yourself, or you can leave it to the pro’s that’s what you’re paying them for after all, until your target has lost enough isk equating to the amount placed, or perhaps as an alternative a 90 day timer to prevent players who maybe over charged with frustration with people, but having this degree of separation it is meant to be an indication of trust within the bounty hunting community as well as generating content for other people.

standing restrictions:
the idea behind standing restrictions is that anyone who you have blue standings or share a corporation with you cannot request the kill rights of.

This will actually be beneficial towards the communal and social aspects of game play because:
it prevents people logging in with alts within the same corporation and claiming bounty prizes for themselves.

Prevents Bounty Hunters from claiming the bounty prizes on other people within the same alliance or coalitions
protects corporations, alliances and coalitions from awoxers claiming payment for being asshats.

Further Pros:
with a 24 hour restriction in place with this system if someone were to leave a a group with positive standings it would prevent them from instantly being able to call on a kill right, blap a former buddy and get paid for it in a matter of seconds, which indicates anything of the sort will show a calculated plan.
Without such a system any active bounty hunter attempting to join a group would have to be dishonest about it. Due to the fact if you could claim bounties from friendlies within a group everyone would question your motive and intention especially if the group suddenly had a bounty placed on it by third party groups. So it further creates a peace of mind based on how the game functions mechanically that bounty hunters can’t blap friendlies. However in EVE who you fly with one day, could be someone you fly against the next, in which case its free game.
This mechanic might seem on some level excessive, however a person who is a bounty hunter or a group of bounty hunters within an alliance for example are then at the service of those people and work against them, even though “never being safe” in eve is always a reality it still doesn’t prevent people from shooting you, it just prevents claiming the money on their heads, this way you’re not a bounty hunter, you’re just an asshole.

The Difference Between Bounty Hunting and Criminals:
Bounty Hunters: are Pro’s who are capable of getting their mark and naturally the further it is (assuming leaving from high sec and venturing into Null sec or WH space) the bigger the group will be required, this is actually seen throughout history, specifically with the pinkerton group in the wild west, however a fleet for one person is not worth it, however a bounty placed on a corp or alliance, could be quite beneficial.

Gankers & Awoxers:
are just assholes, might be worth putting a bounty on them and let the bounty hunters finish the job. With the current system awoxing and ganking can still happen, they just don’t get a bounty pay out, these people are not bounty hunters, they’re just jerks.

Conclusion:
by separating out everyone from getting paid for a kill mail and
Implementing a kill right request system for anyone who has a bounty on them, along with rules to prevent conflict of interests, so gankers and awoxers cannot be paid for their actions as well as changing the minimum amounts required to be placed on individuals, corps, & alliances, as well as reworking not only the payment system but also how the payment system works (changing from Player → corp → alliance) to (alliance → corp → player) you create an organic system which supports all types of players making their game play style more applicable (specifically for mercenaries) but then by doing so and separating out who gets paid and from what and why, allows the for isolation of the niche player group of bounty hunters to be founded and operate within the game while remaining true to the very nature and origins of bounty hunting in its history and conception as well as protecting the very essence of bounty hunting within new eden itself, truly carving out a much needed niche player base.

thank you all for reading, i look forward to reading peoples thoughts and responses.
happy hunting to everyone and fly safe o/
Drogon

2 Likes

So ganker uses alt, places bounty on freighter pilots, 24h later ganker can kill said freighter pilot solo with no Concord.
Can’t see a problem here

4 Likes

Exactly this, ANY system where you can do something that allows another person to be killed freely in hisec is going to have the ever loving ■■■■ out of it exploited. Being killable in hisec without concord interference should only be possible as a direct result of your actions (like committing a criminal offense and getting a killright on your head because of it, or going suspect for something)

Every possible iteration of bounties has been discussed. They all fall flat because in some way or another they:

  • Make any player an elegible target.
  • Restrict who you can put bounties on.
  • Are rewarding enough for players to kill their alts.

All are non-starters.

4 Likes

I started writing a wall of text poking holes in your ideas, but I’m not even sure that’s necessary. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all the thought you’ve put into it, as I wish there were a way to make bounty hunting a viable profession. The problem, however, is that I’m not even sure that there is a way to make a bounty hunting system that isn’t subject to rampant abuses and cheese, and still worth it for hunters -well, at least not in a game that has immortal players, at any rate.

I don’t know, I might write my wall of text later if I get bored. The discussion might be nice. But, I’m doubtful that it will lead to anything productive.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m on the cusp of solving the 3 utilities problem, so I want to get back to that…

1 Like

As others have said already…

This is exploitable as crap…

I have always said and made mention of this specifically when i posted a change to the Bounty System.

For something like this to work, you HAVE TO REMOVE PLAYER AGENCY.

And that means players can no longer place bounties on anyone…PERIOD!

If that means Bounties are given by NPC’s only depending on severity of the offense within the rules of the crimewatch system, then so be it…without this being the new rule, any idea can not move forward.

it being exploited will only truly apply to high sec. even then the same bounty hunter will have a 24H cool down, the agressiveness of the hunt is naturally relivent to the level of risk / reward people are going to get.

RE freighter pilots:
don’t fly what you can’t afford to replace (asshole response)
a simply solution of writing something in saying frieghters in high sec don’t award bounty pay outs. making high sec a sort of operational safe zone for logistics, this way high sec operating pilots are protected, however anything in low or null would still be fair game, but if you start making rules for one group of people you have to do it for everyone else. (an actual response)

if bounty hunting is meant to be a sub profession / profession within the game then it cannot be considered a criminal act, so if you have a bounty on you, then its fair game, whether or not you’re worth killing is another matter concord is not actually there to protect you from criminals they are there to deal the reprocussions of criminal acts by shooting those who gank innocents.

further more 24 hours is only meant to be a place holder, nothing stopping it from being 72 hours or even 100 hours. it would mean you’d have a large target list for you to cycle through, would be fun for the right kind of player even with the waiting.

Besides in eve the idea is that even in high sec you’re not safe, you’re not truly safe anywhere. so making any player an eligible target would actually be the way forward, you could theoretically put a 14 - 30 day block on this for new accounts, this way the player base can be built up sort of like “you haven’t existed long enough to annoy people yet” kind of vibe.

I have a view on alts which i don’t feel is relevent for this thread

Why?
Piracy is considered a valid profession in game yet is clearly intended as a criminal profession.
You have started from a clearly wrong and biased set of views here, and as an obvious result have come to terrible conclusions

Piracy is a crime dude >.> the very profession itself is criminal by nature.

Ok, but that doesn’t explain why a ‘bounty hunter’ automatically gets a free pass from being counted as a criminal. Given a bounty can be placed on anyone for anything, there is no reason it should.

Bounty Hunting was typically done by marshall offices in the united states which were too understaffed to go out into the wilderness and track down and bring in people who’s bail has been paid and thus skipped sentancing.

the latter part of this is still practiced today in the united states typically when someone is arrested they can make bail by calling a bond service and having someone else put their personal assets and finaces on the line, if they’re unable to do it themselves, you’re then expected to appear for further sentancing or perhaps the start of a sentance failure to do so is when a bounty hunter is sent to get you, the origonal aspects which make up bounty hunting actually come from the Thief Takers of London England, who were paid commission to retrieve stolen goods.

so such practices have always been considered lawful, even in the ancient world if a group of bandits were to steal something of yours even if no law directly supported it the very essence of some stories have been to recover lost or stolen goods for some kind of genuine authority, the classic fantasy trope of rescuing a princess from a tower comes to mind.

as a result such practices have always been moral

following this style of bounty hunting perhaps instead of placing a bounty on anyone is the wrong way to go. but perhaps those who have killed you so anything which in turn has generated a loss mail in game, someone comes a long and ganks you, limited cash, can put a bounty on that pilot. would be less inclusive, also seperates out those with bountys and personal vendettas from those who are going to be war dec’d or have merc’s hired on them, it would also steer things away from the “hit man” approach where anyone can have a bounty put on there head, at least this way there would be some kind of just cause for it.

Now step out from a USA centric viewpoint and thing wider.
Or hell, even in the USA. Mob bosses putting a bounty on a cop. A contract assassin. These are all bounties.

No, no they haven’t. Even in the USA it’s not moral.

1 Like

“Now step out from a USA centric viewpoint and thing wider.” (i don’t know how to do the quote thing)
i already said that the origins or bounty hunting come from old london England from the Thief Taker’s

what you are talking about is contract killing
one is a contract killer, who murders for money. (a bounty) in essence a contract killer will ultimately always kill their target. for a set amount prior to the task.

the other “A Bounty Hunter” in the discussed context is helping bring a criminal to justice. (traditionally would only kill if their life is in danger) but bringing people back dead often meant you weren’t paid the agreed amount in fact there were usually mitigaing or technical circumstances in where the bounty hunter would be locked up for killing the bounty and the Marshal would take the coin for themselves, for a job well done.

you are trying to turn bounty hunters into contract killers. to some extent this is also comes from the origins of bounty hunting, being wanted “dead or alive” ultimately one is lawful the other is not.

with the ideas I’ve suggested a contract killer would be someone who ganks another person and gives the kill mail to their employer and they’ll wire them the isk and can exisit in the game even now.
previously the mechanics of the game ultimately tried to support both.

a lawful, above board and mechanically supported bounty hunter, would have to have a different approach.

After all A Bounty is a reward.
you can bring home a bounty of gifts from a fair should you be skilled enough to win.
or a bounty of food from a successful hunt.
or perhaps you would like a bountiful harvest to go with heavy rain.

so if you take on a job to kill someone for cash, you can call yourself a bounty hunter, but truthfully you’re a contract killer.

No, that is what bounty hunters are right now. You are the one trying to turn them into agents of the law in EVE.
And you’ve not presented any good reason why this will present any benefit to the game, considering most people giving up kill rights are -10 anyway.

If a bounty is offered, and you take it, then you are a bounty hunter, legal or illegal is a separate question.

Bond agencies in todays world are 3rd party, the bounty office if it were to be restored in game would represent a 3rd party office for you to take up your qualms with, with what we discussed here, the idea would be to submit a kill report or some kind of loss in which you could set a bounty,

over the years many players have tried to act as bounty hunters and failed due to the mechanical aspects of the game, there is clearly a demand for this style of game play.

how this benefits people is by increasing and allowing for newer players to join the game and a solidification of a whole new demographic of players who are stuck doing things a certain way because of mechanics, further more it also is a way for the little guy to have a voice , perhaps they don’t have the skills to fight back, the funds for a war dec or to hire mercs, but the ganker gets to still grind and restore sec status after a slap on the wrist? i think this would help level the playing field substancially for many people.

you are right, which would technically mean all contract killers are in a technical definition “bounty hunters” however then not all bounty hunters are contract killers.

a bounty hunter is considered someone to be employ of lawful enterprises, in the old west it was marshal or sheriff offices, in todays world, bail bond agencies.

if we’re going to have such a broad definition of what consitutes a bounty hunter
technically speaking all frieghter pilots are bounty hunters then, they are offered a reward in return for their services are they not? for the completion of a job?
mission runners, industrialists and miners are all after that sweet ISK at the end of their labour, as a result they recieve a bounty.

tehcnically speaking just so its clear, the Definition of this is called a “Hit”

a hit is typically a agreed upon finacial amount in return for someones death.

the difference between an assassin and bounty hunter are essentially seperated between the very line of the law, even in your inital comment you talk about a Mob Boss putting a bounty on someone and getting a contract assassin. clearly understanding the difference between the two in your origonal comment here. calling them both exactly the same thing and saying that the legality of such actions is a seperate question.

to restate the obvious which i also mentioned before, bounty hunters typically bring people back alive, this is especially more so in today’s world, they will recieve a percentage of what the person’s Bond is worth.

a contract killer will kill someone for an agreed amount

my suggestions use the mechanics which existed in game at the time, there have been some further ideas here about making further addendums to it, i admit to it, as i said in my inital post, i feel this is more the way to go. i’m not saying these ideas are the ultimate solution, with what we had in game already if certain aspects were approached correctly with the mind set of what truly makes a bounty hunter a bounty hunter and were able to support something which in the intended design was not suppose to be a criminal occupation within the game then it could start to steer things in the right direction, it might not be a sudden over night shift, but at least hoping there is something note worthy here to bring a style of game play to thousands of people who want to see it a reality in a game, to truly carve out what makes that demographic functional and solidify it.

perhaps you should stop straw manning this discussion.
if you’re going to talk what constitutes a bounty hunter and use words which exisit for people who do the same thing in an illegal sense such as “contract killer” and “hitman” but then not be willing to talk about the legal aspect of bounty hunting, you don’t really have anything further to bring to this discussion. if you wish to narcassistically discuss something so you can have small personal notch technical win I suggest you do so somewhere else i’m not interested in that.

The problem I see with the system is you are trying to re-create the bounty system. You have to think of Bounty Hunting as something as a new feature and not “bringing back” or “revamping” an old feature. If you were to label this as “new feature that allows you to possibly be killed at any time for a crime you committed long ago” it would have no traction.

Bounty hunting is more or less filled by mercenary groups right now. If you dislike someone enough to put a bounty on their head, go post in the merc section and hire a corp to do it for you. Or war-dec them yourself if you have the means. Or just hire some rando to gank them back. If you have enough ISK people are willing to bounty hunt for you under the current system.

CONCORD is the law and there is already systems in place for them to enforce the law. Players understand that if they do illegal things CONCORD will react, either by attacking or lowering their security status. A bounty system would only be viable if it is attached a completely different mechanic where CONCORD has no jurisdiction but players still interact with on a consistent basis.

There’s actually a pretty straightforward solution to overhauling the bounty system that’s gotten posted off and on again in PF&I over the years: having bounty redeeming be standing bound, and amounts be tied to grievances.

  1. Bounties can only be posted by individuals with positive security standing, and the amount able to be posted is capped at the amount they personally have lost to the bounty target, their corporation, or alliance, depending on how they are affiliated.

  2. Bounty Hunters must maintain a 4.0 positive security standing. This helps reduce exploitation by alt farming your own bounty but putting a significant effort barrier in place for people to overcome in order to profit from it as an occupation.

  3. Bounties are paid in full, but only after retrieving the bounty’s corpse, and turning it in at a faction judicial npc station (Justice, House of Records, Theology Council, etc.) or concord station. a 0.1 to 1% tax on that bounty depending on who it’s turned into gets sent back to the original bounty poster as a bonus.

  4. Bounties receive reward modifiers based on the bounty target’s faction standing affiliations, which would be added onto the corpse info for bounty information. As an example, if I’m a target and have +9 faction standing with the Caldari for my years of meritous service, my corpse is worth 90% less to the Caldari state since I’m a hero to them, so you would be better served turning it into the Federal authorities, who absolutely hate my guts at a -9 standing. Subsequently, nullsec npc factions would function the same way, with pirates that hate capsuleers who live in their space offering a premium on bounties for their corpses.

All this does a few important things, which prevents reliable alt farming (or at least making it unprofitable compared to doing it legitimately), gives people who follow the law in-game a legitimate pvp profession to do outside of FW, and
makes the grievance system rational. It also turns corpse farming profitable, since getting a few clone corpses of a known ganker or pirate’s corpse lets hunters stockpile them for when their target gets another bounty put on their heads, and can turn in one of those corpses to reward them for being proactive against crime.

It isn’t a perfect solution, but is certainly ideal in that it addresses the core complaints people have about bounties in a lore-friendly and rational way.

i already said in my inital post that the idea behind these ideas was to tweek the already exisiting system, which is now at this point the former system. even if the older system is not bought back and the whole new set up is established i feel there are still things worth noting here which are at the very least, worth considering.

i have already established this earlier in the discussion

recruiting and sending a person or persons into the wilderness because you do not have the resources or juristiction to is exactly why bounty hunting exists. it is in fact the very nature of its creation.

@Catherine_Laartii
i actually do like some of these ideas, i actually am not a huge fan of number 4 on that list as it would directly conflicts with being paid 100% of the bounty (before taxes) however it is not the first time i have heard of standings effecting bounties (as a general broader concept, not nessacerilly regarding direct pay out)

however i will admit this is very interesting to say the least, especially the idea for corpse farming, my only issue with that would be dealing with the already pre-exisiting corpses in game who’s pilots may now have bounties on them. it would also mean that pirates would be able to cash in the bounties as soon as their set and actually would take away from the nature of bounty hunting as an active profession. its also directly set up so that pirate factions can fraudulently claim the rewards for people with bounties on their heads.

similar to the point of what @Kelon said in response to my own thoughts labeling this as a “new feature that allows you to possibly be killed at any time for a crime you committed long ago” would have no traction. where as actually i believe it would do if the balance and scale is right, because equally having a system which allows you to claim the money on someone’s head for killing them long ago and hording a corpse isn’t going to gain much traction other than establish some level of corpse collectors market, which would be a short lived venture as those with bounties on their heads will have corpses purchased, for probably extortionate prices, similar to the kill right scam at the moment. unless you were to take the suggestion which i posted about the kill right scam and by having corpses traded at capped prices. but again this market would only be short lived.

you could also equally just self destruct and have your alt collect the corpse and cash it in, which leads us back to the inital issue bounty hunting had of “someone puts a bounty on you, you log in with an alt and shoot yourself and get the bounty”

with my ideas regarding standings and things such as conflict of interest, it should be noted that having to wait 24H or even longer and equally having a cool down period of being able to do this again will actually prevent excessive spam hunting of people with bounties on their heads and should you be in the same corp or alliance as your alt, to prevent a conflict of interest it takes longer for you to get the kill rights, even if you have left the corporation in the last 1 - 30 days, creating a genuine buffer of time allowing others to take up the hunt for the cash on a targets head.

nothing would be stopping you however from making a completely new character as an alpha alt, but if you have to train skills and grind standings, just to kill you’re alt, is it really worth it at that point? doesn’t this fit more into the line of having a demographic of active players who genuinely want to take up bounty hunting and do so?

I agree that its not a perfect solution, but i do think that there are some interesting factors to be considered in what you’ve posted. such as bounty hunters needing to have certain standings, or people with specific positive standings.

what i am trying to suggest is instead of creating something new, we start with the system we’ve got (well… technically had at this point since its out of the game currently) and consistantly tweek it till it is at least more suitable for the players. which is what i have attempted to do with my suggestions to really carve out, solidify and protect that demographic of players who wish to explore that play style. there may not be a perfect solution, every system after all has an exploit, but instead of having something which 100% doesn’t work and is in effect backwards and counter productive to what bounty hunting is, if we could get that so being say a 75% positive game play experience. then i think its worth doing, i have had friends join this game, seen they can become bounty hunters, tried to do it then quit the game because they can’t do what they want to do.

similarly to the the eve online ecosystem as well as the type of players who would enjoy that style of game play i do feel there is some kind of balance, somewhere within the exisiting mechanics of the game, just presented or expressed correctly to support a system and within the ideas of the community already.

Honestly I think CCP should just toss the entire system out. I don’t think that we can have a system that’s simultaneously fun, doesn’t alter the RoE, and avoids the alt killing issue.