Bounty System Removal

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
21

Don’t get me wrong I fully agree the current bounty mechanics (namely how the payout works) is meaningless and dysfunctional. I understand the reason why, as people exploited the system through the use of alts and filling their cargo hold with junk to earn their own bounties. Still as a result of the nerfed bounty is meaningless, maybe that is why it is mostly used as a joke on new players instead of its intended purpose.

Not sure how to correct it, I saw many threads about this on the old forums, reddit and so on and so far nobody could offer a good way to repair it so it can not be exploited, probably CCP neither that is why it is at its current state still.

And while the above is true I still rather have the current system than no system at all. On the other hand making it optional I have no issue with either as earlier expressed.

I myself think it can not be altered in a way to avoid it being exploitable while having meaningful payouts at the same time so this is what it is for now.

Not as often as before but it is still used for what it is meant for, that is my personal experience, examples provided in earlier post of mine, so it is still used somewhat, aside of making new players scared for a few moments until they learn how meaningless a bounty is, so I think still keeping it is the better solution, while adding the option to hide the Wanted sign I see no issue with.

Edit: Oh and btw another use of the bounty system is why I bounty others myself as well is that you get notified when the pilot dies, so putting the minimum bounty “subscribes” you to the “CONCORD notifies you of pilot’s death and ship loss service”, which is great both in case of friends and enemies, and in case of friends you can ask what happened and often can learn a fun story how the person lost their ship, and can look up the killmail on zkill and if lucky it is there, which is very delightful if your enemy lost an expensive ship. :smiling_imp:

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@Uriel_the_Flame I can respect that.

@Sean_Roach Same here. Not once, not twice, but three times, all by the same person, having no prior interaction with at all. While it doesn’t fit CCP’s definition of “harassment” via their current policies, it pretty much fits every other definition and usage for the word “harassment” found anywhere else.

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It is his way of saying hi and “welcome to EVE!” :wink:

24

It’s illegal in highsec though.

o/

25

Before someone reads the above post and takes it as gospel.
No. It is not illegal. It won’t get you banned from the game.
The only entity, with the power to say that it is illegal, makes it available for use, including in high-sec, and you can turn it on just fine when your safety is set to green.

However, it is CARELESS to use in high-sec, or anywhere, really, as it makes you more vulnerable to suicide-ganking.
It’s also significantly slower, as the autopilot warps you to the next destination short. Too far away to instantly jump or dock up.
And there are in-game “Role-Play” groups who will enforce THEIR will that no one play this game without sitting every moment at the keyboard facing the screen. No getting up for a drink or bio break. No spinning around in a chair and watching a show or youtube video, or reading a book or magazine, while some slow process runs, such as flying a larger ship between gates or mining an asteroid.

But no, Autopilot isn’t illegal. It just leaves you open to preditation by others.
And suicide ganking, outside of very specific circumstances, won’t get them banned from the game, either.

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I’ll just go ahead and repost this. Surely there’s another thread out there that covers everything we’d love to discuss about the autopilot and it’s implications.

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By the current highsec government it is illegal. Have you even read the Code?

o/

28

I would definitely keep the bounty system in game, but i would change it to act more like a hauling contract. In this system you could create bounty contracts on individual players by the ammount you will pay to whoever accepts the contract and kill the target. You would have the chance to make the bounty contract active to corp, alliance and individual level. With this system we could inteoduce the bounty hunter proffession into eve again

1 Like
29

That unfortunately wouldn’t solve our current problem of individual action and consequence that I’ve mentioned earlier. At least based upon what you’ve said thus far, unless perhaps I’ve read it wrong, people would still be allowed to hand out bounties to anyone they wish, for as much as they wish, as often as they wish it. You are merely adding an additional step to the process by turning them into official contracts.

If we are going to keep the bounty system in game, then something needs to happen on part of the player first before a bounty can be issued on him/her. Action > consequence. This is honestly the only issue I really have with bounties at the moment. Let me feel warranted for getting a bounty placed on me instead of having some random passerby slap a WANTED sign on me for no reason.

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Atleast it would be another step needed to make it. I think it would remove the problem at some degree anyway as it would make you have to do more clicks than now

31

I really liked the old bounty system. There was an actual reward for podding someone with a bounty. We would tackel the guy up and warp a smartbombing BS over so that when we killed the dude we would get the full bounty.
I suppose it was kind of broken as well as you could just pod yourself with an alt and collect the bounty, but there was an actual reward to killing someone with a bounty.

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@Luthor_Ikkala You’ve somewhat of a point. A little extra step is at least better than no steps at all.

@S_totan I remember the days of old as well as the bounty system back then, and I have to agree with you on that. Besides the explotation problem, it felt as though people took the concept of bounties a bit more traditionally than what they do now. Now it’s been reduced to nothing but an overused joke or a mild hazing act, similar to what a fraternity house would do to new members.

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You need to go back to the the way I understand we could shoot yourself using a secondary account on another computer and get your Bounty and be done with it if they’re going to keep the bounty system if not they need to completely remove it because it’s really not worth over half a million dollar Orca for someone wanting a little bit of 7 million kind of stupid

34

I don’t know. I’ll grant you it has not as much impact on gameplay as a game designer might wish, but it isn’t useless. I have selected targets based upon their bounty, and I a few times even got lucky with a several hundred million ISK payout when catching a blingy pod. I can only imagine the person who set that bounty was happy to see his or her enemy take such a loss.

If you will permit me to hijack your thread a bit, perhaps what is needed to make the bounty system more used and more meaningful us a buff to hunting-style game play? Basically tools for hunters have languished for well over a decade, and took a big hit when the watch/buddy list was nerfed a couple years back, and this has been made worse by the constant buffs to highsec safety over the years which makes operating as a criminal or even a hunting-style wardeccer difficult for your average player. These combined make it exceedingly tedious/impossible to be an effective bounty hunter/assassin in this game, and one might think the bounty system would get more use if the ability to track and engage a target was made more practical.

In any case, I don’t see what the system hurts or imagine it costs much for CCP to maintain so it probably better to just let it be in case it finds more use in the future after some other game change.

2 Likes
35

@Black_Pedro Those big bounty payoffs that actually work as designed, I’ll admit, are really nice to come across every now and then. And without knowing all the variables involved with someone achieving such a high bounty, one can safely presume that the individual most likely earned his bounties in the traditional manner (by being a criminal, or at the very least wronging quite a few people). This, to me, would be a proper example of the bounty system working, and would make the bounty hunting profession seem genuinely satisfying when the opportunity to collect presents itself. It isn’t so much that the bounty system is completely devoid of any and all meaning and value. As it currently stands, however (and as I’ve mentioned before on this thread) there really isn’t much of a means implemented in the game to regulate the act of issuing a bounty, which in and of itself greatly contradicts those rare moments where value can in fact be gleaned from the system.

What has led me to the conclusion that the bounty system should be removed is based entirely on the fact that after being released nearly 15 years ago, with the many changes implemented by CCP, and the countless suggestions provided by the game’s player base, we still have yet to have a fully functioning, regulated bounty system that the majority of players find value and relevance in. Even if we, the player base, found value in this system at one point in time, that time is certainly not now.

It’s not so much that a solution for this can’t be found, but more of a issue of either 1) A solution is far too complex with gameplay and/or programming considerations to be implemented properly. 2) Budget/manpower limitations prevent a proper bounty system adjustment. 3) CCP has shifted focus away from the bounty system to something else (or has lost interest entirely). 4) Constant, heavy player exploitation makes implementing a proper solution nearly impossible and thus impractical. 5) The opinions of the majority of the playerbase shifts too often for a solution to be found. or 6) A proper solution has yet to be found. Or it could very well be a complicated, twisted web of all of these reasons feeding into themselves.

Either way, until a proper fix can be found, it makes sense at least from a functional standpoint to simply remove the system in it’s entirety, at least for the mean time. If one can be found, it can be reinstated at a later time.

36

Thinking about bounties, I have this to suggest.

  • First, restrict giving bounties to things that at least make one suspect. You should have to be yellow or red flashy to be targeted with a bounty. You should still be free to bounty yourself, if you choose.

  • Second, start tallying up things that should make you suspect, but don’t, currently. Things like bumping. If you bump, the person you’re misaligning should have the opportunity to bounty you, even if it doesn’t make you suspect. (This might be difficult to incorporate, but I do think these things should be included, if possible.) Likewise, on leaving a corp, the corp leader should be free to bounty you for any sum for the next week.

  • Third, a bounty should inconvenience the person with the bounty. Lower costs to hunt them down via agents. If the bounty is high enough, the agent should volunteer that information, in real time, for free. If the bounty is really high, you should get a peak at the ship and fit.

  • Fourth, replace the “Wanted” banner with a “Criminal” banner for low security status. Let it be the thing it suggests. Make the “Wanted” banner something people can have added to their portrait as an option.

  • Four point five. Throw in a “Warning” banner, for people who rack up a large number of PvP kills in a rolling month.

  • Fifth, make it not pay the person who claims the bounty. Have each player pick a charity. Any bounties they COLLECT go toward that charity. We’ve done PLEX for Good, how about bounties for good? Use the current market value for PLEX to determine the cash payout. There needs to be a selection of charities, however, so that it is the collectors choice, rather than the bountied victims choice, where the money goes. Wouldn’t it be sweet if some Athiest was killed in game, and a million ISK worth of cash went to a church? Or conversely, someone observant’s bounty went to fund birth control efforts somewhere?
    Imagine the bloodbath that would result shortly after a hurricane? All for good, naturally.

37

My replies to your suggestions in the order you have listed them:

1). Wholeheartedly agree with you there. I think, with this implemented, people should feel completed justified in getting a bounty placed on them for their actions. I feel like this could quite possibly fix the system to a point where it at least feels somewhat relevant again (or at least has a purpose behind it). +1

2). Not sure how I feel about the bumping example in particular, and I’m not sure what other actions would be considered worthy if they do not already make you suspect. Perhaps when someone gets duped by a scam, they could in turn place a bounty on the other. The issue I see with this however, as you have already mentioned, I think this would be entirely too difficult to implement properly, as there are simply too many variables at play to consider for each and every instance of these.

3). I believe you are talking about locator agents in this example. I would disagree with this point, as the agent would be offering a service regardless of whom it is you are finding. Same service, same price seem fair to me. Also, while I’ve limited experience with locator agents myself, I’ve a feeling that the cost to use them is most likely considered negligible at best. A third point would be that every career field in the game has their own specific costs associated with them, so making it potentially free for bounty hunters to hunt seems somewhat unbalanced to me.

4). I disagree with the “Criminal” banner option. The term “WANTED” perfectly applies to the concept of a bounty, and as mentioned by Uriel earlier in this thread, some people with bounties on them haven’t necessarily committed any illegal act to warrant themselves being called a “criminal”. They are simply “wanted” by someone else for some sort of transgression (or, at least as you and I have been saying, should be).

The “WARNING” tag though does sound like a neat idea.

5). This is where you’ve lost me entirely. While the rest of your post suggests otherwise, I can’t help but wonder, respectfully, if this last part is merely you trolling at this point as it makes no sense at all. So, with that said, I’ll just leave this item alone.

38

In order again.

  1. My thought was that other things that are too hard to automatically determine if they should merit a criminal suspect timer might ought to apply. If a frigate sized ship slams into a cargo ship with the MWD on, it’s probably a malicious act. If the hauler agrees, he can bounty the frigate pilot, but it wouldn’t be automatic. I don’t see how that would work with contracts, however. I could easily see someone collecting all reasonable contracts just for the opportunity to bounty the seller, …then flipping the contents for little or no net loss. If it could be managed, it would be worth adding.

  2. I am talking about agents, but I’m also talking about making agents cheap enough, for the big bounties, that you can just leave an alt there to give you a gate by gate update on the targets path.

  3. For “Criminal”, I mean just slap that up on everyone who has a sufficiently negative security rating, irrespective of the bounty system. It’s what the Wanted banner calls to mind.

  4. Okay. One of the ways that bounties have been abused in the past, and the reason the payout is just a fraction of the ships value now, is the phenomenon of players killing themselves, via an alt, for the payout. Sometimes going to the extreme of market manipulation in order to drive up the cost of the items they “lose” in their shot up ship.
    By making the payout something you can’t personally collect, but still “receive” some value for getting it, you keep that from happening. If, say, you opt to collect bounties for, oh, some group that has pledged to use the money to distribute vaccinations to whooping cough in sub-Saharan Africa, you get the warm feeling of helping that effort at the expense of whoever you killed. If that person is one of those anti-vaxxers, too bad, the bounty on them still goes to keeping kids in Africa from getting Whooping Cough, ASD risk or no ASD risk. (Remember when it was mind control chemicals in the fluoridated tap water?)
    In other words, you don’t collect the ISK, but you still enjoy choosing, from a limited selection, how that ISK goes to benefit others. Even possibly in ways that your victim would object to. CCP just ends up cutting a dozen or so checks every month to mail to the subscribed charities. Also, CCP reduces the availability of PLEX on the market by that much, buying it themselves with the bounty money, so CCP doesn’t run a loss.

39

Where’s the theory I came up with you should not have the ability to put a bounty on someone unless their security status is below -1.5 I’m being generous with that number but I also don’t believe anybody that had security status below that number should be allowed passed a 0.3 that should not be allowed in Hi security space And the reason I’m giving-1.5 that number is because someone can get a -0.9 really easily I just being a new player or not realize you can’t touch containers That do not belong to you

40

Unfortunately for that idea, it’s entirely possible to be a pirate and have a high security status.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Repairing_security_status

Also. these days, I believe you get a warning before you open a container that Does Not Belong To You. At least if your safety is on green. I haven’t tried in a few…years.