Indulge me for a moment.
Breacher pods are currently with max skills at 200 DPS / 0.75% Max Raw HP per sec for Small, and 1000 DPS / 1% Max Raw HP per sec for Medium. This violates the one of the general idea of all EVE Weapon Systems, that smaller weapon systems have better application and larger weapon systems have higher DPS as a tradeoff. As is, the Mediums have better application than the Smalls in All Situations.
Instead the Smalls should be 200hp/1% and Mediums 1000hp/0.75%.
Take a Frigate with maybe 1500 hp. The Small does 11.25 dps, the Medium does 15 dps. This scales all the way up to a target with 26,666 HP where the Small caps out at 200 dps and the Medium is at 266 dps. At no point does the maxim, Smaller applies better than Larger, hold true with Breacher pods. If the percents were swapped this wouldn’t cause a massive shift in dps either way but it would put it in line with other weapons systems in the game as far as Medium weapons systems applying less well against Small targets than Small weapons systems.
Edit: On further discussion it was pointed out to me that this change if done, making the small 1% and medium 0.75%, would be a significant nerf to the damage scaling of the Medium. Meaning instead of reaching its full damage potential against a 100k raw HP target (already not that easy to find on anything smaller than XL ships) it would at 0.75% need a 133k raw HP target.
So perhaps the Small just needs to be brought up to 1.1% and the Medium untouched in order to bring them in to the correct Application relationship. Either way I still maintain the Smaller pods need to have a larger % scale than the heavier sized pods due to Application relationships between the sizes.
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did you even read the notes?
the 1% or .75% are the caps… of damage… Titan will have the full effect of 1000 dps while a corvette won’t.
I do read the patch notes.
With all weapon systems in the game, smaller systems have better application (Tracking for turrets, Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity) than larger systems. The trade off is the larger systems have higher dps. They just don’t apply that dps well against much smaller targets.
With the way things currently are, the Medium boarding pod will always apply more DPS to a target than the Smaller boarding pod. This is contrary to all other weapon systems in the game as far as applicaiton versus overall dps tradeoffs.
If you disagree, that’s fine. Then give me the details of a ship where the Smaller system would apply more DPS than the Medium. If you can’t (and you can’t) that’s because the Boarding Pods run contrary to every other weapon system in the game as far as their damage application relationships.
@Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras Ok to address your point more directly, here goes.
Take a Corvette flying along. In an Ibis right now with a Civillian AB I’ll get about 600m/s. Small target, ok speed for what it is. And now lets say 2 attackers come at it. One is a Manticore with torps. On paper he has incredible damage. Another is a Kestrel with rockets. Ignore the paper DPS, which will kill the Ibis faster? No webs, no paints. Purely application. I bet the Kestrel would. Why? Because in EVE in general you will find better application and thus higher utilization of your potential damage on equal sized targets or larger targets. Meaning using a Large sized (Torp) weapon against a Small (Frigate) target will apply poorly, worse than a Small sized (Rocket) weapon.
Now two different attackers. One is the new Destroyer using the Small breacher pods, the other is the new Battlecruiser using Medium breacher pods. Simulation of me right now in an Ibis says it has 624 raw HP. Pitiful amount but the exact number doesn’t matter. The Small will deal currently 0.75% of that max HP in damage per tick, or 4.68 dps. The Battlecruiser however deals 1%, or 6.24 dps. The Medium is applying more DPS than the Small, and will do so for every ship. That is my problem. It contradicts every other weapon system in the game and provides no incentive for using the Small system over the Medium other than you happen to have a Destroyer and not a Battlecruiser.
of course it will,
small = 1-2 soldiers(or a fire team of 4)
medium would = maybe up to 3 fire teams
and so on…
remember you are firing boarding troops into the target
@Max_Deveron See my post above where I break down the numbers. Yes, you can say ‘more troops so more damage’ but by that logic Torps should always out damage Rockets. But they don’t because for game balance reasons we have application issues. I am saying the Application is not correct for these new weapon systems.
it is not a contact weapon, or projectile, or energy…
It is a Fast Launch Boarding Shuttle taht breache/bypasses the shields and lands the troops onto the Hull.
The troops after landing is what is doing the damage.
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Lore wise, sure. I am talking about game balance. For game balance reasons, we have limitations on weapons applying to different ship profiles.
well this is a new weapon/device with different mechanics deal with it
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Here is your Breacher pod example, Project Nova by CCP
It’s not the first weapon system that is like that. Smartbombs work the same way. Nuets work the same way.
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Smartbombs deal a flat amount so while it is true that a larger one will always deal more damage than a smaller one it doesn’t have any application effects at all. So the same smartbomb used on a medium target versus a smaller target will deal the same damage. With boarding pods, there is application effects in the %. So as they don’t have any application effects what so ever with smartbombs I don’t think that’s apples to apples.
And you are mostly right with the Neuts but that is mostly a holdover of them just being ancient and relatively untouched. Capital Neuts do have application meaning it can be better to use a L neut rather than an XL neut.
Your suggestion would let a Destroyer deal 33% more damage to big ships than a Battlecruiser.
This alone should already be a sign your suggestion is wrong, but let’s see why you are wrong.
You are correct that in general smaller weapons have better application, while bigger ships have more damage.
The new weapon however doesn’t have any application, only damage. Either the damage-over-time effect is applied fully, or it’s not. There is no in-between. The only new part is that the damage of these weapons isn’t a single number, it’s a percentage of max health. The full damage then is a percentage of max health, or to stop these weapons from dealing massive amounts of damage against capital ships, up to a maximum value if that exceeds a percentage of max health.
The bigger ship deals more damage and should deal more damage as is always the case in EVE when weapons fully apply.
After all, it would be pointless to bring a much more expensive slower battlecruiser to deal damage against large targets if a destroyer would simply outdamage it, don’t you think?
Define ‘big ships’ please. And keep in mind I am saying that they need to switch the percents. The Small would still have the 200 dps limit and Medium would still have the 1000 dps limit.
With that in mind, when CCP was showing off the weapons they fired on a Rattlesnake. Would you consider that a big ship? It had roughly 79300 raw HP as the Battlecruiser (which had the 1k dps / 1% limit) was dealing 793 per tick. If we did the change I proposed (Small at 200 dps / 1% limit, Medium at 1000 dps / 0.75% limit) the Small would be dealing 200 damage per tick, and the Medium would be dealing 594.7 damage per tick. So no, the Destroyer would not be dealing more damage to big ships than the Battlecruiser.
The % of max raw HP limit acts as Applicaiton.
If the limits were changed to 200dps/1% for Small and 1000dps/0.75% for Medium then the Medium deals more damage (201 per tick) on any target with 26,800 or more raw HP. So effectively battlecruisers or bigger.
Nevermind, I take it all back. You can keep the percent at whatever you want. At those prices, ■■■■ it. Balance em however you want.
What are they currently going for?
The Battlecruiser alone requires just shy of 2400 Atavum. Before Revenant Atavum were going for 1-2 mil in Jita which means 2.4b-4.8b estimated cost. Last I saw Atavum were like what, 5 mil? So the effective cost is at or above Dreads. But they are of course new and shiny so it will eventually come down…but to what?
Atavum have an NPC buy order from the SoCT for 500k ISK meaning the absolute floor reasonable price would be roughly 1.2 bill just for the Cenotaph hull alone. If people thought Khiz’s and Alligators were too expensive, hah.
That’s not counting the fact that it has an additional like 900 Atavum worth of support skills.
You can also buy all of this stuff with Encrypted Infomorphs which are obtained via Mercenary Dens which are new things for Sov Null to put down. The price of those are going to start out high but I do not know if there is any NPC buy order for them to settle at. Even though the prices for the new stuff is higher with Infomorphs than Atavum, if the Infomorphs settle below 500k it could be a cheaper way to procure the new stuff.
