Capsuleer Infomorph Mishaps - Transhumanist Problems

[Tannia_Ambrye]

@Quelza

Problem with this is that clone soldiers that die before their next “back-up” basically lose everything they’ve learned since the last back-up.

So memory loss is a truly an occupational hazard for the clone soldier? Thank you, Mr Quelza.

[Slayer_Liberator]

Not really what happens is that our brain state is constantly recorded up to the moment we die by our implant, so the roughly 5,000 times I died I felt the pain of death each time.

[Quelza]

Shoot.

It’s been a while since I looked at that manual. Appreciate the correction.

[Halcyon_Ember]

I don’t know any personally who have. Most of those I know well maintain some level of distance. My former chief diplomat for example tends to remove from her staff any member of her crews who forces her to identify them as a person in anyway. Not in a callous or negative fashion she simply finds it difficult to impossible to fly into combat with the recognition that she’s spending actual human lives in doing so.
If anyone is successful I feel it’s likely to be Che but to my regret I’m not close enough to him to judge.

[Tannia_Ambrye]

@Slayer_Liberator

so the roughly 5,000 times I died I felt the pain of death each time.

Forgetting some things isn’t always a disadvantage. Thank you again, Mr Liberator.

[Tannia_Ambrye]

@Halcyon_Ember

Not in a callous or negative fashion she simply finds it difficult to impossible to fly into combat with the recognition that she’s spending actual human lives in doing so.

I guess it would make it easier. Wondering if capsuleer choices would be any different if most of us saw our crews as people?

If anyone is successful I feel it’s likely to be Che but to my regret I’m not close enough to him to judge.

Perhaps he’ll chime in. Thank you, Ms Ember.

[Valerie_Valate]

@Tannia_Ambrye

99.999% is clearly different than 99% and definitely does change the results. I think Ms Kernher did say the probabilities of memory loss were less than 1%, which it seems Ms. Valate read as equal to. It was an interesting and useful exercise all the same, so I let it go.

Yes, well, consider that in the cloning process, there are several things that are involved, the main two being:
Physical cloning of the body.
Memory transferal of the brain.

The accuracy of those are not the same.
And when you consider that any given human is something like 99.5% similar to any other human genetically, one has to be careful of what it is that is being specified by the cloning service providers when they quote accuracy.

So, when we look again at non-spaceship related skills, such as artistry, music and the like, then a tiny variation in the physical cloning may have a much greater effect on the individual’s ability in those skills. Consider the effect known as “muscle memory”. The brain instructs the muscles, but the muscles don’t respond in exactly the way the brain thought they would, causing errors in the performance of the muscle movements.

But of course, such things are largely irrelevant if one chooses to use extensive cybernetic prostheses or other modifications. Perhaps that is why such things are an ever-increasing sector of the capsuleering accessories market. Cyberarms can be relied upon to always play the musical instrument the exact same way.

[Tannia_Ambrye]

@Valerie_Valate

Yes, well, consider that in the cloning process, there are several things that are involved, the main two being:
Physical cloning of the body.
Memory transferal of the brain.

One is genetic data and the other synaptic pathways data. Sure.

@Valerie_Valate

when you consider that any given human is something like 99.5% similar to any other human genetically, one has to be careful of what it is that is being specified by the cloning service providers when they quote accuracy.

So what is the stated accuracy of transferring and implementing the genetic data into a cloned body? We were talking about the accuracy of transferring memories into a clone, what you’re bringing up now is a different issue. Not that I have anything against that, it’s just strange that you bring it up here as an argument against the alleged accuracy of the cloning service. Even if the accuracy of the the genetic data transfer is less than that of memory transfer is that really an argument against the accuracy of memory transfer?

The brain instructs the muscles, but the muscles don’t respond in exactly the way the brain thought they would, causing errors in the performance of the muscle movements.

First of all, doesn’t this happen normally in biological entities such as humans? We train and improve, yet our bodies often betray us.

Secondly, isn’t muscle memory actually stored in the brain or spinal column making muscle memory a subset of brain memory? I’m neither a biologist or neurologist. Perhaps someone who is can correct or clarify?

Perhaps that is why such things are an ever-increasing sector of the capsuleering accessories market. Cyberarms can be relied upon to always play the musical instrument the exact same way.

I just thought cybernetic appendages were superior in many respects to their biological counterparts. You seem to be saying the same thing here. Are you?

Edit:
Thank you, Ms Valate

[Quelza]

You should read this regarding clone body construction. It’s kind of terrifying. New bodies are more…synthetic than one might think, particularly where the facial structure and brain are concerned.

The three most relevant excerpts:

The biomass is used to construct a functioning body. This body is complete in every sense, with fully functioning organs and peripheral neural system. Instead of a brain there is only a primitive cluster of ganglia which is capable of maintaining heart rate, blood pressure and respiration. Core body temperature is dependent on the environment, and so has to be controlled very carefully in order not to damage the cells. The immune system of the donor is crippled and the thymus is removed and replaced with implanted cells from the customer. The clone body will thus not reject any implant – this makes it possible to seed the body with stem cells from the customer. The clone’s body cells divide very slowly, allowing the new cells to take over in time.

Culturing a clone takes several months, but all clone stations store generic clones that are only put to use when a client buys it. The skull, and frequently other bones as well, is replaced by osteoplastic materials – soft synthetic bone polymers that can be shaped and then hardened by gamma laser irradiation. In this way, facial features and other body marks and textures can be applied very quickly. The process is very quick and is applied as soon as the clone is purchased. A similar technique is also used to adjust skin tones and give special skin marks, such as tattoos and scars. This means that the featureless clone is quickly transformed into an identical twin of the client.

The quality of the clone is always critical and this is a point that cannot be stressed enough. The closer the clone’s brain is to the original in shape and form the better the reviving process will work. The more different they are the more memory will be lost during the synaptic growth process. This is most clearly seen in the space industry. For a space captain to retain his license he must be connected to a cloning facility. But if he fails to buy himself a suitable clone, which he is not required to do by law, he will be given a generic clone instead at the time of death. As these generic clones are bound to have very different brains than the original the memory loss can be very severe. The best clones, made from certified human cadavers in perfect condition, are able to retain up to 99.99% of memory – a figure close enough to call the revived clone a true doppelganger of the original person.

Seems like even the professional clone services are kind of philosophically conflicted as to the nature of the entity that comes out of the vat.

What even are we?

[Yarosara_Ruil]

Whoever thought that a mass of cells that like to gather ionic charge (only to just discharge it to neighboring cells as a form of intercelular communication) was an even remotely adequate medium to store ship-to-capsule interfacing data must have been out of their damn minds!

At this point we should all just scrap our cerebellums entirely and replace them with a single biochip implant directly grafted to the brain-stem.

[Aria_Jenneth]

So, the article you cited, sir, is one of my predecessor’s favorites-- and several years out of date. Extremely high-quality clones are now available at negligible cost, with data loss way below what it used to be even with very expensive clones.

It used to be you paid a LOT just to have a high enough clone grade to avoid data loss. Now everyone gets the benefits, and my bones can be sculpted osteoplastic instead of harvested from certified cadavers of dead children (a ghoulish side effect of needing small bones).

[Quelza]

Call me vain, but when I was learning about the cloning process in the academy, I was more troubled by (1) the fact that my face and some of my body is built on a synthetic foundation and (2) my clones get their start as a sort of body-snatching skin graft on a lump of generic biomass.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Well … there’s really no getting around it: our bodies are manufactured products.

What else would a clone be, though?

[Quelza]

Fair enough. I wonder if I just haven’t yet fully come to terms with the process. Might be those moral/philosophical hang-ups beaten into me by the Empire finding their way up here from the depths of my psyche.

[Arrendis]

That… is an incredibly callous… really, inhuman approach to things. Yes, you have to retain a level of detachment, you have to accept that the people you’re working with and leading will likely die under your leadership, but… damn, that’s just downright sociopathic.

[Arrendis]

@Valerie_Valate

Cyberarms can be relied upon to always play the musical instrument the exact same way.

No, they can’t. Because the brain directing them isn’t telling them ‘initiate music program Moron1’.

[Arrendis]

@Quelza

What even are we?

We’re copies of copies of copies of dead people. Anyone who wants to tell themselves they’re the original person… well, they can delude themselves however they like, but it’s just that: delusion. We’re not immortal, we’re just serial reproductions.

[Teinyhr]

Transhumanist problems:
-Bleak outlook on life, the universe and everything

[Aergri_Evingod]

@Teinyhr

Transhumanist problems:
-Bleak outlook on life, the universe and everything

Somehow this requests for poetic expression.

Frozen to ice,
walks dusty roads,
grey alabaster the skin
to genuine to be real,
produced in a tube,
not by love concieved
blank necessity
born by financial need.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Quelza

What even are we?

Ghosts.