Oh, I agree with you on this one, Ms. Ambrye, and I would like again to bring apologies for both speaking not on topic and for making confusion - since I have meant these traits to be not of a group, but of a this particular person. It would be hard to prove my point if I would make such claim about a group, but with dealing with a person, I can show it with ease. Of course, since it doesn’t belong to this conversation, I will really prefer requests to provide such proofs to be sent to me via Neocom mail. And please excuse me once again.
Very well, Ms Kim. Clearly my opinion of Ms Teinyhr differs from yours and your opinion is your own to hold. Since you have agreed to be polite I’ll pursue this no more. Thank you Ms Kim.
2 Likes
The Topic allows for the questions if only the injected skills are lost or that base skills can be lost. Sufficient to say what Ms. Gesakaarin reports points to the fact that such forgetfullness could include base functionbs of the Body and that I wonder wether the scanner Producers know about them and included patches or preset data.
Another topic is that we as capsulere might be considered a shifter culture as we shift the infomorph to another biological hull. That leaves to wonder how sleepers and drifters see the biological hull.
2 Likes
I’ve found one of the biggest issues to be that discussed previously. The sheer distance between us and the general run of humanity. I myself tend to avoid associating with the baseliners in my care. By which I should more properly say “my employees”. However as pointed out when you have the associated wealth of a capsuleer and the perceived conceptual immortality it’s hard, as a benevolent employer (which I do try to be), to see them as simply as employees and not people whom you have undertaken the care of. Especially when they all work in an enclosed environment within space.
Obviously this distance affects others differently and they come to view the “ordinary” humans with which they associate as little more than an expendable resource, fleeting and easily replaced.
In either situation the number of capsuleers who actually still successfully associate themselves with the majority of humanity is incredibly small.
3 Likes
One of my present job roles is the prototype testing of transhumanist technologies as it applies to the hydrostatic interface. Psychological and somatic barriers would present interference in data collection, so I do not operate with them down when I’m in the pod.
The sensate experience of being in-gestalt with a combat vessel did present issues when I was outside of the capsule. Foremost amongst them was the “dullness” of both sense and experience when not interfaced. This led to some rather unfortunate behaviour since it was only acts, like say, the slow garroting of a sexual partner, cutting them open from their chin to navel and then ripping out their entrails to feed to my Syrikos Hound, Bubi, because that elicited that same feeling of being “alive” that I felt in my pod.
Fortunately, by all accounts I am now within a far healthier emotional and psychological baseline and I can consider my past behaviour as nothing more than humourously edgy anecdotes over a beer or two.
2 Likes
If I remember correctly, hah!, the cloning memory degradation issue was reported by DuVolle Lab’s cloning division to mostly affect artistic & interpersonal skills, and not the hard skills directly related to flying spaceships.
They considered this acceptable, as those skills are not really a priority for capsuleers.
That said, consider that 99% accuracy means over 20 iterations, there’s only about 82% chance of the end result being completely faithful to the original.
2 Likes
Well I do have targeted memory loss from when I was a DUSTer, so I no longer remember the name I was born with.
1 Like
Can confirm that random snuffing of Caldari capsuleers is not something that we were allowed to do when I was a cop. The line gets a lot less straightedged when said capsuleer is unaligned or foreign aligned, is out of the parts of the orbital cleared for capsuleers and is breaking local laws.
Shooting of capsuleers who are also Caldari citizens is frowned upon (can be considered murder / assault) - unless the two corporations involved are not friends.
Personally speaking, I was told not to pull the trigger unless the capsuleer involved was a jaiiji, breaking the law and there was an onboard cloning facility AND I had recorded orders from a superior to do so. It’s hard to press charges against security when you can point to the new clone waking up, ten floors up.
2 Likes
Yes, I purposefully kept it open ended.
Ms. Gesakaarin reports points to the fact that such forgetfullness could include base functionbs of the Body and that I wonder wether the scanner Producers know about them and included patches or preset data.
I don’t know. Perhaps someone who does can answer this question.
That leaves to wonder how sleepers and drifters see the biological hull.
Are Sleepers fully uploaded to into some sort of computer simulation? Do we even know if they’re uploaded? I don’t even know if they place any value on bodies, though I’ve heard rumours to the contrary.
Drifters see human bodies as parts, don’t they? I’m a bit fuzzy on the details. Are harvested bodies used as structural parts, or computational components?
Again, maybe someone with experience or knowledge in these things can respond.
1 Like
Right, so the perceived differences between capsuleers and non capsuleers commonly grows in the mind of most capsuleers over time. Is there perhaps some way that this gulf can be bridged? You seem to indicate that some capsuleers have been successful doing so.
1 Like
That sounds interesting.
Fortunately, by all accounts I am now within a far healthier emotional and psychological baseline and I can consider my past behaviour as nothing more than humourously edgy anecdotes over a beer or two.
Indeed. I’m sure any partners you have now also find that fortunate.
1 Like
I subscribe firmly to living the life of the person you want to be. I maintain strong working relationships with baseliner staff, my wife and I are in a traditional marriage and maintain a very normal (if somewhat opulent) home. Our child was carried naturally (as much of a hassle as it sounds) born naturally and will be peer normed in a proper creche environment.
I am no more human physiologically than any other capsuleer, but I find that living as human a life as possible keeps me as human as possible.
3 Likes
Hrm, 20 independent probabilities of 99% where the clone is true.
0.99^{20} ~ 0.8179
Yes, your math checks. This is the probability of memory loss not occurring over each of those twenty times. It doesn’t mean the damage or memory loss is 82%. Nor is it guaranteed that you’ll have any memory loss even if you were copied over 100 times. The bigger question is how much is lost when memory loss occurs. Losses such areas as artistic ability and interpersonal skills are defining traits for many people, so losses in those areas could be personality altering.
Thank you, Ms Valate. You’ve given us lots to think about.
3 Likes
Your memory loss was purposefully induced? By yourself, or others? What is DUST?
2 Likes
I am no more human physiologically than any other capsuleer, but I find that living as human a life as possible keeps me as human as possible.
I think you have a very sensible approach to the matter, Mr Tuulinen. Wondering if you find non capsuleers relate well with you as a peer, a boss or even as just a fellow citizen?
Thank you, for sharing.
1 Like
The “immortal soldier initiative” or whatever the different nations called it. Like capsuleers, except on planets and in a high-tech suit of armor instead of ships, and with even shorter of a life expectancy.
And if I had to take a guess, if being a regular soldier in a war is hell, being a DUST mercenary is being in a special kind of hell . I wouldn’t blame them if one would opt for induced amnesia of it all. And of course they probably witnessed things many powers that be would rather keep secret.
But I’m sure they will tell you more if they want.
2 Likes
Having been podded 111 times since graduation, no, it is not guaranteed at all. I’m sure others here have an even shorter average lifespan than my roughly 27-day period. It’s also worth noting that if we were looking at a 99% accuracy, that would make it an incredibly unreliable technology. The fluid router network (which is how your burn-scan gets transmitted to the next clone) is an extremely reliable system, on the other of ‘five nines’ or better.
Five nines, for the record, is 99.999%. Over 20 iterations, that’s a 99.9800019% chance of accuracy. At 100 iterations, 99.90004948%. At 111 (for, you know, no particular reason), 99.88906103%.
Especially these days, with the changes in cloning contracts due to improving biotechnology, the odds of mishap are incredibly low. You’re almost more likely to suffer deliberate sabotage, as happened to Aria. Even in the old days, when forgetting to update a contract might cost a pilot weeks of injected skill integration, pilots who were absolutely famous for exactly that kind of absentmindedness didn’t report actual memory loss with enough frequency to be more than statistical noise due to ‘people need an excuse for why they forget crap’.
2 Likes
99.999% is clearly different than 99% and definitely does change the results. I think Ms Kernher did say the probabilities of memory loss were less than 1%, which it seems Ms. Valate read as equal to. It was an interesting and useful exercise all the same, so I let it go. Yet even a three figure percentage of 99.9% only drops to approximately 98.0% after 20 intervals. I didn’t know that it was a five figure percentage though. That really does make the memory loss statistically insignificant!
Thank you for clarifying, Ms Arrendis.
2 Likes
Thank you, Ms Teinyhr.
2 Likes
It’s worth noting that the clone soldier tech differs from capsuleer tech. Couldn’t fit transneural burn scanners in those armor suits, so soldiers basically made “back-up” scans that can be downloaded into a number of clones. Problem with this is that clone soldiers that die before their next “back-up” basically lose everything they’ve learned since the last back-up.
1 Like