I am certain this is a question previously asked , how do capsuleers transfer ship to ship? Is capsule physically and mechanically connected, docked, socketed to an individual ship? Or does capsuleer enter and exit pod from ship to ship? Or is the whole process a transfer of consciousness? I ask because there appear to be design discrepancies with several models if physical connection of the pod is required. Love the graphics and design work, but socketing the pod seems to be impossible in some cases. I am willing to suspend disbelief and operate on the premise that “what is, is what is” but am curious if there is lore associated with this.
Pod is planted into the ship, each ship would (presumably) have different ports to implant the pod inside it for control, though I don’t believe there’s any specific diagrams of it outside of the printed book Frigates of EVE Online which has some cross section diagrams and such.
You can also leave the pod (used to be a thing in-game with the Captains Quarters, but was removed because no one used it and would cause problems with each update).
Ok, then are the “pod” and Capsule separate constructions? A capsule has a volume of 1000 cubic metres, 10 x 10 x 10 m for the sake of discusion. That is physically incongruous with several shuttle corvette and some frigate designs. If the pod is separate within the capsule then my query is sorted. But if capsule and pod are one and the same, physics and logic have to take the back seat. The book looks wonderful.
as it relates to the game? no, they’re basically synonymous.
as it relates to the lore? i don’t think CCP has actually made that distinction.
There’s a “vat” of sorts that holds the clone, and the “capsule” itself is the space-ready ‘ship’ you pilot that holds the “vat”.
I wouldn’t put much stock into those in-game dimensions as lore accurate because some of them are done for the sake of gameplay balancing. Neural Implants are 1m3, which clearly won’t fit inside heads of a humanoid clone.
Technically, the volume of the implant could include “packaging” for transport. It’s not necessarily the same volume once “plugged in” to a clone. This would also explain why they cannot be safely removed.
You are now dipping into Lore and the history of New Eden.
There are two technologies: Cloning and the Pod. The Capsuleer - which you are in the game - is the result of the merger of these technologies.
Cloning is the creation of a rapidly grown genetic copy of you, copying your brain patterns and writing them into that clone. This technology allows an individual to have several clones in various locations and use the brain pattern copying technology to copy yourself between them. This is useful as the brains of different clones can be augmented in different ways depending on the client’s requirements.
Clone Technology is heavily regulated by the Empires. There is the concept of copying a person into multiple clones. This is forbidden.
The other technology, obtained initially from the Jovians, is the Capsule, also known as the pod. This enables the direct neural connection of a person to the ship they are flying. You are fitted with the correct neural interconnects (plugs) so that when in the pod you can connect directly to the ships systems as if they were an extension of your own body. Your body is supported in a fluid and effectively placed in suspended animation. Most of capsuleer training revolves around ensuring that the body and mind can handle the transitions and connections without permanent neurological damage. Not without reason are they known as “Jovian Wet Graves”.
You enter the pod, and the pod is then inserted into the ship you are to command. At that point you become the central processing command unit for that ship. The pod has a fully self-contained life support system for your body as well as limited warp drive and space flight capability (the whole package is the capsule, but the terms are interchangeable). In the event of critical damage to the ship you are inserted in then the Capsule is ejected into space. Destruction of the pod is, of course, lethal to the occupant.
The merger of these two technologies is to have the pod, at the moment of destruction, perform a brain state scan of the occupant - something which can be rapidly performed since the health or comfort of the client is no longer a critical concern. This scan is then sent to the registered home medical facility of the occupant where the brain pattern can be written into a new, blank, clone.
You are thus functionally immortal - provided that no one disrupts the transfer of the brain image.
The background lore stuff is:
The summary scientific article: The Capsule and the Clone.
The description of cloning by one of the larger Federation Cloning Companies.
The account of the acquisition of the Capsule technology by the Caldari from the Jovians. Audio version.
So, yes, Capsuleers do walk around, then get in a Pod/Capsule, then get the pod inserted in a ship, arrive somewhere, the pod is extracted and the occupant revived. Probably with a certain amount of “I hate waking up covered in gunk”.
The prohibition on duplication is enforced through the Yulai Accords (which define the relationship between Capsuleers and the Empires) and the technology licensing controls that CONCORD enforce.
Drifters are not subject to the rule of Man, and it is reasonably believed that they use consciousness copying to produce multiple clones. What the Triglavians do we can but speculate, but their ships do integrate well to Pod technology.
Implants: I tend to think of them as being part organic and then directly connected into the neural structures of the brains and that removing them destroys their interfaces rendering the implant un-usable. And yes, something that delicate would need a substantial packaging to preserve the more sensitive biological components. I wouldn’t carry a transplant-able heart jammed in a Tupperware sandwich box.
The links above are mainly to the Eve backstory website - it’s a fascinating collection of stories and articles about New Eden.
It can be explained with an ingame trait of cargo containers, they’re bigger on the inside than they are on the outside due to the use of Planck bubble generators. Stealing from other scifi and fiction there’s also the TARDIS, the pockets of cartoon characters and the Discworld Library, all of which are much larger on the inside than is physically possible.
Some years ago the incredibly talented author, Anne McCaffrey wrote a novelette called, “The Ship Who Sang” which I’ve always related to in Eve, partially because I’m a disabled person and partially because there are definite narrative crossovers within the two neutropias.
The basic premise is this:
In the future of our universe, the parents of babies with severe physical disabilities — but fully developed and exceptionally talented brains — may allow them to become ‘shell people’ rather than be euthanised.
Taking that option, physical growth is stunted, the body is encapsulated in a titanium life-support shell with capacity for computer connections, and the person is raised for one of a number of curious professions. As such, their offspring would suffer no pain, live a comfortable existence in a metal shell for several centuries, and perform unusual service for Central Worlds.
They’re a pretty cool series of books if you’ve not come across them and well worth a read. Here’s a link if you want to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ship_Who_Sang#Brain_&_Brawn_Ship_series
I am familiar with McCaffery - as well as Russ, Leguin, Tiptree, and about a dozen other Feminist Sci Fi authors. I wrote my masters thesis on the writing of Joanna Russ. While these ruminations about similarities in other venues of sci fi are entertaining, I still do not have a definitive explanation from EVE . . . just the equivalent of urban mythos from its players. That’s all well and good because I said at the outset that I can accept the answer “what is, is what is”. Just say there is no explanation, that nobody has made an effort to quantify the paradox of capsuleer/capsule volume. I just think it is odd considering it is the singular plot device generating this entire universe construct. So far the only conclusion I can draw about it is ‘deus ex machina’ - its sole purpose it to drive the storyline.
Well if you want the real reason, it’s because numbers were thrown in during hasty development phases at various point and the devs didn’t think anyone would care enough about the details to come along and say “Wait if capsules are 1,000 m3 and my shuttle is 5,000 m3 how does it fit inside?”.
I mean, do you really expect that ships are going to come out to exactly 5,000 m3?
If it helps any, you can head-canon it as the ‘capsule’ being a detachable or ejectable part of the ship, which takes up approximately 1,000 m3 of ship space with it’s attendant connections and support structures, and which contains the pod that actually houses the capsuleer.
The capsule is integral to the ship until ejected. Capsuleer boards ship, enters the capsule, enters the pod, which closes around them, connects the neural interfaces and fills with the fluid. If the ship is destroyed the capsule ejects, warps wherever, and when arriving the pilot opens the pod and exits the capsule.
I don’t see anything there that causes a paradox, but if you have issues with it, you’ll just have to find your own head-canon for it or ignore it.
For slightly more detail, you might check http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Capsule as a reference.
I think this is almost certainly the real reason for the discrepancy.
However, if we play along with the game fiction for a moment…
In 7,703AD the wormhole leading to new Eden open, collapsing in 8,061AD.
Some 15,175 years later (which equates to roughly 23,155AD) during the Gallente-Caldari War, hydrostatic capsule technology was given to the Caldari by the Jovians¹. At this stage, however, it was largely unusable because of the differences between human and (genetically enhanced) Jovian physiology².
On the 26th June 23,236AD, a historic meeting took place on the Jovian cruiser Yoiul involving the five New Eden empires³. Eve Standard Time⁴ was established at this point and the year became known as YC0.
Just under a hundred years later (YC98/23,438AD) clone manufacturers, began capsule research and development to allow for the modification of the original capsule blueprint. This led to a major breakthrough in YC104 (which equates to 23,340AD) when the first transneural burning scan interface was successfully installed bringing capsules into wide use across the galaxy.
Skip forward to today, and we’re currently in Eve Year 122⁵ (23,358AD) and it’s now been around 203 years since capsule technology was first passed to the Caldari.
Based on this timeline, I’m sure that the technology to enable a smaller capsule must be physically possible at this stage and maybe this is something that the CCP developers might embrace at a future point to clear up the discrepancy.
References and notes*
1 - Capsule Information
2 - The Capsule and the Clone
3 - Yoiul Conference
4 - Eden Standard Time
5 - Yoiul Conference Year Conversion Table
To work out the any Eve Standard Time date, you take the year and minus 1898 from it. Thus, 2021 will be YC123, 2022 will be YC124, etc.
If you’re interested in the backstories and timelines for the empires, these can be found behind the following links:
Amarr . Backstory - Timeline
Caldari . Backstory - Timeline
Gallente . Backstory - Timeline
Minmatar . Backstory - Timeline
Jove . Backstory
Why don’t you read the original post. I’m not having a cognitive seizure over the “imaginary science” proposed by the storyline.
I think it’s poor SF scripting to create a plot device that can’t keep its lies straight.
In short, faulty product. Wanted to give credit for the graphic work , but it doesn’t support the storyline.
Now I’m faced with a plethora of fanbois and pseudo-sophists trying to enlighten my ignorance, or malign my disbelief.
Simply put, the pretty pictures don’t match the story facts and I don’t buy it.
Glad I’m not paying for it. Is that clear?
That was always my view of the lore tbh.
Topic moved to EVe Lore Discussion
As with many things, its not quite so straight forward. While traditional cloning does exist in New Eden, much of the ‘cloning’ That pertains to capsuleers, warclones, and clone pilots, are actually bioconstructs sculpted from biomass and artificial materials befpre being seeded with the genetic material of the receiving individual.
Also, yes, it is illegal to transfer a mind into multiple bodies, but perfect regulation is impossible, and per word of developers such as CCP Delegate Zero(the current lore dev), capsuleers and others have had the capability for some Time to setup cloning infrastructure outside of empire or CONCORD jurisdictions. This leads to some interesting shenanigans to play with, though most roleplayers are content to play inside the bounds of the ‘empire regulations’ as it were. Wider community tends not to like it when it shows up, but best thing to do is do what you think will make sense for a given character or story plot you have.
In-game, you can view the physical dimensions of most ships and objects by clicking the item portrait in its description window. For the capsule, it is roughly 2 meters in length.
Additionally, I prefer this cut out of the Algos class destroyer over many of the cutaways seen in Frigates of EVE, as it seems more realistic than a number of them, and gives a better feeling of placement and scale of majority internals including the capsule.
Probably a good thing they’re producing an MMO and not trying to write SF to your taste then, I guess.
If you’ve got your knickers in a knot about a 1,000 m3 capsule being an ejectable part of a 5,000 m3 ship, I’d say you’re barking up the wrong genre.
But hey, if that’s the one thing that makes EVE non-pay-worthy for you, I’m all for it. More people refusing to pay for EVE is a good thing in my opinion, since it’s the only wake-up call CCP is likely to listen to.
Maybe dial back a bit. It was a valid question worth asking. There are a lot of numerical inconsistencies ib place for game balance reasons that don’t match up to lore or stated physical dimensions, and its often a point of discussion within the lore and rp communities
I’m not sure where the whole “dial it back”, “cognitive seizure”, “fanbois maligning my disbelief” notions from you and the OP are originating? I responded factually to his OP, both as to how the discrepancy likely occurred, and practical advice on how it could be re-imagined in a way that generally fits into the game lore (or simply ignored).
I didn’t insult, denigrate, swear or malign. I did point out in the second reply, since he seemed to take offense to the factual one, that perhaps his expectations were out of line with the product he was reviewing.
And then I communicated that if his dissatisfaction with this element of the lore makes him not pay for the game, then I support that?
If I’ve somehow missed any insults or aggressive use of angry punctuation, please feel free to enlighten me on what parts you think are non-factual or need to be ‘dialed back’, and I’ll see what needs to be done about it.
I do apologize, I only read part of what you had said, so its on me.
Its not uncommon that many people outside of RP and Lore are generally dismissive of discussions therein, so there’s sometimes a bit of a visceral reaction because of that.
I always seen the pod as something like this
Especially after you get podded, you see the shards of the pod around you. And the remains isn’t larger then the corpse that’s floating around it. As is already pointed out in here, item volume is wonkers as as implants and a box of chocolate is 1m3