Carrier roles, and a suggestion

My alliance was having a discussion tonight about carriers and the role they have in Eve. And, honestly, we had a hard time finding a niche for them.

Damage role:
In the past, when they could use drones, they were a very solid counter for subcaps, but post changes they have lost their role in that. For high damage against slow targets you now can bring a HAW dread, and if you want to deal any appreciable damage to a structure you bring a cap gun dread or supercarrier. For quick drops against targets of opportunity, black ops are arguably better, as two blops deal as much dps as a carrier for half the price.

Tank role:
1.5-2 million ehp is good, but with no active tank bonus they will struggle hard to stay alive against even subcaps, while not being able to do nearly as much in return, thanks to fighters’ poor application. Buffer dreads can easily hit double the tank numbers for similar cost, while being able to apply some serious damage in return.

Support role:
Decent, but again, for the cost it’s not worth fielding them over a fax which can provide similar bonuses while also providing repair power.

So, what is their intended role? I would suggest that they be a counter to subcap escalation, where you want to bring some carriers to counter a large group of subcapitals. This could be done with a couple of changes:

First, higher ehp. They don’t get the massive tank bonus from a Seige module, so I would suggest a role bonus of 100/50% shield/armor buffer modules. This would give them staying power on grid, but also not incentivize ludicrous active tanks.

Second: a larger fighter bay, and 3 tiers of fighters, mirroring drones, but in a carrier only function. Low dps/high application to small hulls, moderate dps/moderate application to medium hulls, and high dps/low application to large hulls. Aim for 700/1500/3000 dps, to give a carrier pilot a shot at making a dent in a subcap fleet. However, also make the bay only be able to accommodate a few of each, requiring them to make choices and care for their fighters closely. This could be done my making Space Superiority fighters apply their damage to ships, but that’s merely a suggestion for ease of implementation.

These changes would provide meaningful choices to be made when fitting and flying your carrier, but make them more appealing to use, and justify their pricetag, which is currently a very poor ratio of utility to cost. As it stands now, compared to a black ops with T2 fit, you get twice the damage, but worse target profiles, four times the tank, worse mobility, worse safety, due to using a hard cyno, and all that at five times the Isk.

Let’s bring our big boys out of the past and into Eve’s third decade where they can shine once again, as an aspirational ship, and a star shining bright in our galaxy.

buff the catalyst instead, better content for everyone

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One more turret on the Navy-issued Catalyst and more CPU power CCPlease.
In fact, more CPU power for all destroyers would do a lot of good, especially for the new players who don’t have all those engineering skills trained to V.

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I can see destroyers being a go to for sub optimal engineering skills. The praxis though… with minimal skills and a low budget it might be better.

More expensive than a Catalyst and those hardpoints take Large turrets, it takes more time to train on those than Small Hybrid turrets.

wake up and check thread

I could get on board with catalyst changes if carriers could launch them as fighters.

Some people specialize in derailing threads to their personal interests. Best to just ignore them and hope someone else brings it back on topic.

This should likely be in Suggestions/Ideas forum. Carriers don’t seem to drum up a lot of interest since the last round of changes - few players hate them enough to complain, players who had them still find the occasional use for them, and most players have moved on to other classes of ship from what I can tell.

And it’ll be a cold day in hell before CCP admits they screwed up badly with Re-Distribution, Scarcity and Industry reworks, and that the game was actually better off before they “fixed” it. So carriers will likely remain too expensive to use for the results they give.

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Some good articles, thanks! I know it’s been mentioned before, but I wanted to kick in a few suggestions instead of the tired old cycle of “problem—>post—>you’re bad can I have your stuff.”

Price point to me isn’t that bad on carriers, but they need a role to go with that tag. If it’s super defanging, give them the ehp to handle the job. If it’s subcap demolition, give them the application for the job. At the moment though, our alliance just fields black ops and dreads, with carriers for the one or two edge cases where they have some use. Kinda sad to me.

moved to Player Features & Ideas - EVE Online Forums

Ty, ISD! I’m always a bit unsure where to post stuff like this.