I could put that kind of persistence into effect…if I had access to the raw data. Start digging around in there and looking at these things until either I found the answer of just gave up out of sheer exhaustion.
I’m not saying Coralas is incorrect, I am noting that it is a possible problem in terms of the MERs in general, not just Delve.
Exactly. It could be that. Or maybe the Devs working on this thought of that and said, “Uhhhh for now just remove the BPCs.” If anyone reading this thread (still) gets a chance to ask a Dev, especially CCP Quant or one of the guys on his team…this would be a good qestion, IMO.
I’d think it is due to the ME and TE multiplying (by 121) the number of different types of one base item. It used to be even worse under the old research system. A value could possibly be applied to a researched BPO and the BPC based on research and copying costs.
it’s actually very simple : on the market you put items PACKAGED.
All items that are packaged have the same stats.
So any item with damage can not be put on the market, it must be repaired first. basically bpcs are just “damaged” bpos (actually they have a fixed number of runs while bpos have -1)
SO : BPCs ARE BPOs , just damaged, so you can’t put them on the market, as you can’t put damaged crystals on the market.
Pray tell, how exactly what the early warning systems that the RMT cartels have developed, you know, the ones based on names showing up in local, going to work? No doubt the cartels have the manpower and resources to build new warning systems, but they themselves would have to be predicated on bots that constantly dcsan. (oh the irony).
I agree the smaller groups in null would be hurt. But what would also happen, though the RMT cartel propaganda teams will shout “no no no”, is that suddenly small highly disciplined roaming groups can dive deep into the heart of russian space and Delve, and wreak havoc on ratting/mining bots.
We have seen what griefers can do in high sec, basically asymmetric warfare. Suddenly, the cartels’ economic engine would be exposed to that same warfare. That is why CCP will never do it.
It doesn’t even matter if they get caught because they live under a super umbrella anyway. The problem is not intel, the problem is defensive strength of the big alliances. There isn’t really any way to nerf defensive strength so the only other possibility is to nerf the power of ISK generating ships. But in the end that won’t work either because botters will always find a way to bot and real players will always be affected more by nerfs. It’s a waste of time even thinking about bots.
I think the index price of an item is the sum of it’s component’s index prices (components are listed in the “industry” tab).
index price of the items that are not salvageable (rig materials/moon/minerals) are worth their average exchange value during a past period (of ?)
But that wouldnt make sense, as the BPO/BPC only involves those component costs once its used. In other words, for example, if an importing vessel carried both the BPC and all mats to make it, the import value would be “double counted” in the stat.
Also, it wouldnt make sense, as BPCs are not valued by their component costs, nor by the value of their output product, but rather by availability according to supply/demand ingame (both as where the BPCs are sourced, and what they sell for on the contract market).
I’m increasingly of the view that BPO/BPC may not be represented in import/export/production figures at all.
No it’s not. “Small” is a subjective term but there are several orders of magnitude between a module and a repackaged BS.
I can assure you that the amount of ship we actually import is ridiculously small.
Yes, I forget to mention T3 materials in stuff we import. As for the LP stuff, we do have pretty much all of the most interesting items seeded on the 1DQ1-A market.
Faction ammo are used a lot of course but so are the faction small shield extender and of few other mods.
what is listed in the industry of a bp is not its components. It’s it’s activities.
A BPO is in the second category : its value is the average trade value it’s been purchased at.
anyhow BPC values is negligible wrt the components cost.
Most BPOs can be valued on the conventional market, as they are NPC sourced. That however does not yet mean CCP includes them in import/export/production stats.
BPCs are more complicated. If the BPC is indexed at the value of the mats required to build one unit of product, that means either:
----A) The export/import/production value would be double-counted. The BPC, as equal in value to x units produced from it, would double the value ontop of the mats.
----B) Or, the BPC value is rendered zero, as all of its value being considered to be in the mats/time you need to build it, when you build it. Meaning all BPCs would be valued at zero in import/export/production stats, and thus undetectable.
Its possible BPCs are valued at the price of the finished product. But that would be even worse for import/export/production value stats than any of the above, as it means the BPC is valued as the finished product, even though it hasnt been made yet.
Elaborate, please.
Lets say we are talking about a Cynabal BPC.
How is that BPC valued/indexed in MER:
-A) When it is imported into Delve?
-B) When it is used in production in Delve?
Thats pretty much what I expected, as deduced by the logic I applied earlier in this thread.
I reserve the caveat, however, that Goons may be going even further in outfitting their fleets with DED/LP sourced modules/implants in special issue doctrines.
Goons are certainly earning enough isk, and sourcing enough of their own materials, to afford to buy bling for their doctrines.
There are numerous DED/LP modules/implants, that especially in large amounts in large fleets, have serious stacking multipliers if used inventively. Its never really been tried en mass, but Goons would typically be the first to do so and seem to have the resources to afford it.
It makes eminent sense for Goons to outfit their core fleets with the best of the best, inorder to overcome more numerous opposition when ■■■■ hits the fan, especially as it seems they can well afford it.
This would seem the rational/simplest conclusion, considering the manifold complications including them would involve.
In other words:
-We have no idea what Goon fleet doctrine is, as there is no way to discern more expensive doctrines being sourced via expensive BPCs from outside of Delve. (Except via analysing BPC sales outside Delve)
-From Local production in Delve, we can deduce they are doing atleast a substantial proportion of their own production via BPCs imported from elsewhere.
-We can discount the value of those BPCs from import/production to zero, thus meaning the rest is in something else.
I’m insinuating that the attainment decryptor is the most used decryptor when its price is low.
If you look at the price history tab you’ll notice it has increased during the last 3 months. That indicates an increase in invention activity.
Goons are so big in term of trade that they must leave a trail in the market. If they want to have a specific fit doctrine, they may not have enough production on their own so they need to import from Jita.
So just need to look at what materials are needed for specific doctrine.
Tough, but possible.
Much of raw material buying will be indistinguishable from increased trade on those materials by others cashing in on the changed situation.
As I argued before, I furthermore dont think Goons are importing much raw mats.
They pre-process them in HS/LS and ship that result in. afterwards.
I think it would be simpler to look at BPC sales on the contract market and T3 material demand. That would delineate faction/T3 doctrines at least.
For example: Delve is Sansha space, so we know they cant source Machariel BPCs there.
Also, any increased demand on some DED/LP modules/implants, albeit Im not sure what dastardly use of them en mass Goons may have conceived of.
I think its best to approach the question of what Goons are building for by inductive process, rather than deductive.
Look for stuff that would give Goons an edge, and what they cant source locally, rather than conventional mats/goods.
(As you did.)