# Determine "best damage"

is there a way to mathematically figure out which weapon is goinng to make the most damage on a certain object/ship ?

i try to find somethings that can reinforce mobile depots… tried heavy and light missles … but they barely scratch them when used in a caracal. (on paper damage is 600ish but they only deal 150 in reality)

on the flipside 1 volley of Torpedos out of my manticore instantly reinforces them. (applies 100% damage)

what are the metrics to calculate the damage deal’t on a certain object?

Pyfa.

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Missiles apply based on signature radius, velocity, distance to, and resistances of the target plus the explosion velocity, missile speed, flight time, and damage type of the missile ammo.

Turrets apply based upon signature radius, angular velocity, distance to, and resistances of the target, plus the turret tracking, optimal range, and falloff range of the turret, plus damage type, tracking, falloff, and optimal modifications of the turret ammo.

The equations are available on Eve Uni and provided in tools like PyFa.

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I’m also going to recommend Pyfa.

While you could do all the calculations with all the relevant parameters like tracking speed, signature radius, transversal velocity, range, explosion speed and size etc etc by hand, it’s much simpler to create or import fits you want to test in Pyfa, add a target and simulate damage of your fits against that target at various ranges, angles, speed or whatever parameter you wish to compare to see which fit is best and when.

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Yes, you will want Pyfa. You can also add in implant profiles which can make a huge difference. I use it just for that sometimes.

Polarized Tornado. since you don’t shoot things that shoot back, why not go blingy?

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An important consideration for missiles is that the damage is calculated based on the “worst case scenario” of the above factors.

Too many people think “more painters == more damage” and its really irritating.

Target fast and missile explosion velocity small? Less damage.

Explosion big and target small? Less damage.

Take the least of the above and apply that. Much less damage.

true that

well the mobile depot was just a example, i just want to understand the mechanics, i do have pyfa but i have not figured out how i can set a specific target or a target size.

its true, 2 painters do result in more damage (i have tested that) a third one however makes very little difference.

so how does the Explosion size and the target size compute?
is there a metric to look at like Signature vs explosion size … or mass vs explosion size …

never mind … seems Signature is the metric to look at.

i guess i just need to figure out what the “optimal radius” for a certain weapon is.

thanks, that link was very helpful. just the math left to figure out … Eve Unit time

If your target is sitting still, it will have a really bad day.

Oh for crying out loud no, no no no no. Painting is only relevant if the target is moving slower than the missile explosion velocity, +/- bonuses from missile skills.

There we go.

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_mechanics

Damage=𝐷⋅min(1,𝑆𝐸,(𝑆𝑉e𝐸𝑉t)drf)

Or in plain English

Damage equals the least of ( (1 * total missile damage ) or (total missile damage * (explosion radius divided by signature radius) or ( total missile damage * ( explosion velocity / linear target velocity ) )

So as previously stated. If the target is moving fast, missile damage will be less. If target is small and missile explosion big, damage is less.

No amount of painting, even infinite painting will increase the damage a torpedo with a explosion velocity of 54 m/s will do to damage to an interceptor moving at 6,000 m/s.

Web the interceptor down to 30 m/s ? Now the painters start to matter.

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Incorrect, painting is also relevant if the target is moving fast.

Size and speed are two separate ways to reduce missile damage taken and you can target either of them (with painters or webs) to increase your damage to the target.

It’s true that against a fast frigate webs are a more effective choice to make torpedos apply damage, but painters also do increase damage already even if the frigate is moving faster than the missile explosion velocity.

The only time painting is irrelevant is if the explosion radius of your missiles is small enough to fit entirely in the target ship already, or if you already have enough painters that you’re running into diminishing returns.

I stand corrected, if there was infinite target painting, damage would be infinite also, capping out a the constant max of 1 * Missile damage.

This is actually why Scramkiters are such a spoopy thing in solo frigate PVP in Faction Warfare.

Those essentially kite things within scram range by making the target very slow with a scram and two webs.

This also opens the door to builds oriented around still going fast as ■■■■ whilst under dualweb pressure by utilizing the cream of the crop in implants, drugs and abyssal-rolled faction/deadspace modules. I have had it happen twice in my solo career that an AB + Scram + Web ship was still able to dictate the range and negate rocket damage via movement speed whilst squaring up against an AB + Scram + Web + Web ship. You’re always sort of left sitting there like “Okay, that happened.”

Not so. Target painters and missile explosion radius work differently than missile velocity. So if you can bloom your target and increase the target sig radius above your missile explosion radius - any excess is applied against the target velocity (the reverse is not true for webs and explosion velocity).

The reason 3x target painters isn’t much more effective than 2x target painters is due to stacking penalties.

Perhaps I am reading the formula wrongly, the text indicates it applies the lesser of the three possible values and not additions or ‘stacks’ of them ?

You seem to be reading the formula correctly.

Missile damage is multiplied by the lowest value of:

• 1
• sig size divided by explosion radius [in case of stationary target]
• sig size divided by explosion radius, multiplied by exolosion velocoty divided by target velocity, multiplied by some missile-type damage factor

In practice this means that:

• missile damage application cannot exceed 1. It cannot be bigger than on-paper dps by using webs and paints. At best you can get ‘perfect’ application of 1 times your dps.
• against a stationary target you will apply full damage with perfect application if the explosion radius is smaller or equal than the size of the target
• against a moving target you can increase damage either by webbing or painting

The confusion I think is about the word ‘stack’. These 3 factors in the formula do indeed not stack, only the lowest number, or ‘worst case missile application situation’ is used.

What does stack is the use of paints or webs.

You can keep increasing the signature size of an enemy by stacking multiple target painters or keep decreasing their speed by stacking webifiers, or both.

Doing so is limited in two ways.

First, once the target is slow or big enough to apply full damage (damage factor is 1) you cannot increase your missile damage further by making them even bigger with another target painter.

The target will grow bigger or slow down even further, but it will not increase your missile damage against them.

Second, target painters and webifiers have stacking penalties which generally means that using more than 2 or 3 of the same type of effects does very little.

Adding more effects won’t make the target bigger or slower, so your missile damage won’t increase either.

This is the ‘stacking’ they’re talking about.

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