Dev blog: Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th!

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(Warrior Xena) #472

A keepstar is worth 300 bil easily. What keepstar fight have you seen with 300 TRILLION isk worth of attacking ships ?

At this time you can kill a fortizar with a small fleet of subcaps. Any defense you put on it is way weaker than the defense of a deathstar pos which is 5-6 times cheaper and supposedly replaceable with an astrahus.
If you want to kill a citadel easier than you can kill a pos then you are missing the point of structures altogether.


(Warrior Xena) #473

A couple questions about the coming changes

"To solve these issues, we plan to add a reactivation delay to the Standup warp scrambler and Standup stasis webifier modules that prevents them from being cycled constantly without breaks. The current plan is for them to activate for 30 seconds, and then need to wait one minute before activating again. Combined with these changes they would also be limited to a maximum of one copy each fitted to a structure. The intent would be for these modules to be used strategically to grab tackle long enough for an allied ship to get their own point, or in conjunction with the new AoE webs and bubbles. "

The warp scrambler work for 30 seconds and needs one minute to reactivate, the new AOE bubble works for 40 seconds ( with a 20 seconds warm-up ) and needs another minute to reactivate. Does this mean that a structure only has 70 seconds to destroy (one) ship before that ship warps away no matter what ? How will this help in the most likely event that a structure is attacked by a blob of ships from 100km away ? The standup missiles alone need 20 seconds to travel that far.
Forget the blob, what would be the chance of a structure against a single BS accompanied by a pair of logistics ?

“The largest change to modules in this release will be the addition of new T2 Standup modules. These will provide upgraded functionality to all the major combat modules for Upwell structures and introduce numerous new fitting options. Entirely new module categories will also be brought to Upwell structures, including capacitor power relays, capacitor batteries, armor reinforcers.”

Will these modules be available on sisi before release ?
Any plans to convert the existing POS modules to standup modules with similar functions ?


(Warrior Xena) #474

A pos can protect itself against a pretty good fleet.


(Anton Kring) #475

Great job CCP. Lots of change. I like this.


(Wander Prian) #476

Until you defang it, which you cannot do to upwell structures.


(CCP Fozzie) #477

Hello again everyone! Thanks again for the continued discussion. I’ve finally caught up with the new posts in this thread and today I’m able to share with you all a few changes to the the plan that we’re making based on your feedback so far.

  • We’re removing the Standup GTFO from the plan. We completely agree with the concerns raised about this module in high-load situations and since we haven’t been seeing much excitement or interest in using it in lower load fight either we’ve decided to simply drop it from the plan.
  • We’re removing the 5 minute fitting period from the plan as well. We won’t rule out potentially re-adding it in the future if the meta has changed enough due to other changes that it becomes necessary or helpful, but we’re happy to leave it out of the initial release and see how things go.
  • Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m. This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition, and should slightly mitigate some of the extra challenges in high-load fights. This doubling would not impact the initial deployment hull repair timers which would stay at 15m. We are investigating options around dilating repair timers, but we can’t make any promises in that direction as there are technical concerns that haven’t been fully estimated.

Thanks again for the feedback and keep it coming!


Цэцэпэ, а точно все нормально с грядущим патчем?
(Capqu) #478

Nice :sun_with_face:


(Kalaratiri) #479

Solid changes :+1:


(Thead Enco) #480

How about instead of “magical wizard repair timers” and damage caps people actually undock to rep their structures like with Dominion mechanics?


(Le Mittani) #481

Thanks for listening, all of these are good ideas.


(Svara Eir) #482

based, thank you for advocating


(lij Kurvora) #483

haha citadel genocide best day of my life


(Thead Enco) #484

“Doubling the final “last stand” hull repair timers for all Upwell Structures to 30m. This provides more time for attackers to get into position or to reposition, and should slightly mitigate some of the extra challenges in high-load fights. This doubling would not impact the initial deployment hull repair timers which would stay at 15m. We are investigating options around dilating repair timers, but we can’t make any promises in that direction as there are technical concerns that haven’t been fully estimated.”

This does nothing at 10% tidi when your fighter tubes are taking 2 hrs to reload up after the last 3 squadrons were destroyed.


(Evelgrivion) #485

This does nothing at 10% tidi when your fighter tubes are taking 2 hrs to reload up after the last 3 squadrons were destroyed.

That’s life in extremely degraded server conditions. The only choices you have there are whether or not you show up, and what you choose to show up in.


(Elusive PirateKing) #486

Great work! Thank you!
This new update sounds like it will be great for the game. :smile:


(Evelgrivion) #487

The structures team has made excellent progress on the comprehensive suite of Structure mechanics overhauls. It’s much appreciated, and is looking good!

As a small gang player, I do have a couple of remaining concerns:

  1. Citadel grids are not a good place to go in a small gang; the structure’s defenses can shred most roaming gangs. This has made it a lot harder than it used to be to tempt the people living in a system from coming out and saying “hi.”
  2. Tether Radius is ginormous. If by some chance you do decide to stick around on grid, the tether radius area is wider than most weapon ranges at the Fortizar on up range.

The first problem could be addressed by limiting Structure Weapons from firing unless the repair timer is paused, which would permit gangs to stay on grid as long as they liked until driven off by residents. Hopefully, this would result in a bit more small gang PVP around nullsec than we currently see, but it is a fairly dramatic mechanics revision. The second problem could be addressed by shrinking the size of the tether a bit.

Other than that, keep up the good work! :smiley:


(Bezdar22) #488

i agree with u … if citadel replacing pos why not give them same characteristics.

also i want to point out something , they way citadel deployment works . seems there is just no limitation how many u can anchor in one system or even one grid . thats just nuts. if u go to bigger alliance staging u will see there is just too many unnecessary citadel lying everywhere … i think there should be a limit of citadel u can anchor in one system or have them only anchor able near moons or planets


(Solamnic) #489

This change is killing the game for the small corps that have found a nice bit of W-space to live in. As with null sec if you aren’t part of a large Corp or Alliance you might as well packup and head back to HighSec…


(Evelgrivion) #491

You’re concerned that you’re going to be kicked out of Wormhole space, because the required effort to reinforce and destroy your structures won’t stop people from making the attempt anymore?


(Kaynard Stormwalker) #492

:hearts: