What did I twist and change ? Those words were yours.
YOU on the other hand are the one changing “undocking means consent to PVP” into “undocking implies PVP”. Which leads to your statement relying on absurd claims, and implying things like “undocking in an empty system is PVP”. Your assumption lead to absurd ideas, therefore your assumption is wrong.
You are also the one who is making personal attacks after personal attacks when proven wrong.
All I did was proving you that your post is completely absurd and relies on plain BS : this feature did not reduce the PVP activity by any mean.
I don’t get why people complain about something that did not actually remove anything, just made the game less of a hassle in a few cases. I mean besides being bitter vet and complaining about things changing.
Newbie friendly ? “New Skill with a Simple Click and Readily Injected”,
+ 30% more ISK from your newbie wallet, which you will only find out about later
equates to “if it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t”
Unless you live deep in nullsec of course in a camped station.
There was no meaningful player interaction required in forcing somebody to hop in a travel ceptor and go to lowsec to get a book. It was just an additional chore that created an unnecessary obstacle for people to be able to do what they wanted to do in the game.
That’s great. Hundreds of millions of people get books online and read them on their phones. Hell, even if it’s a physical book, I don’t need to leave the house to get it. The point remains - it’s a hole in the lore that doesn’t make a lot of actual sense.
Where the hell are you people getting this ‘No Meaningful Player Interaction’ crap from? Tell that to all the players sitting on gates. Having to travel to go get a skillbook got players out of the station.
You do if you want it asap instead of waiting for Fed Ex. Anyway, guess all the Book Stores and Libraries around the world should just close up shop since almost everybody downloads books and reads them on their phones.
Something like that may happen once, or twice, per accident. So yeah it’s not meaningful.
I undocked much more for BP than for skillbooks. I go in NS more for BP than I undock for a skillbook.
Because it’s true, dude. Nobody was getting great PvP killing random guys in travel ceptors heading to Jita to get skillbooks.
The only argument that really works against the new skill training system is that it killed skillbook traders game play. That argument died about two weeks into the new system when all the skillbook traders stopped doing it.
Frankly, it’s more like that this caused more PvP than cost it. The sooner I can train the ship I’m trying to fly or the skill I need, the sooner I can get into space and start killing things. The time it takes to go get skillbooks is just a chore.
If you want a book for free, then yeah, you gotta go pick it up. You want to buy something, you can get it next day or instantly, if you don’t mind looking at a screen. Again, hundreds of millions of people do this every day.
If you don’t think it’s absurd in game about spaceships with immortal capsuleers breaking every law of physics and the like that we can’t download a book, I don’t know what else to tell you, dude.
You’re arguing for the sake of arguing.
This is a good mechanic. People like it. Hasn’t hurt the game, has only made it better.
OK dude, you’re really reaching now. The person killing that Interceptor heading to Jita doesn’t know that player is going for skillbooks. So Players on Gates killing Shuttles, Frigates, etc is great meaningful PvP, as long as they’re not going to get skillbooks.
Yeah, I wasn’t going to mention that aspect of it. That’s just another one of the many player business ventures that CCP has made obsolete. Also, there’s still skillbook traders in the Market, just not as much as before.
Can you link an Official CCP graph to support that statement?
Dude, don’t even go there because there’s lots of things in this game that’s absurd.
Yeah, almost as much as you.
Anyway, this dead horse topic has been beat up on enough.
Yeah, but it has to be some kind of time to delivery/downloading and it’s got to be a warning to new players, that it’s cost more or there a delivery fee, something like that. Of course no one decide to fly for it if it’s instantly loaded. IDK, i liked to travel, when i started for some reason, just to watch a EVE world. That was a great opportunity though. Even it it was a little PVP with little newbie somewhere, there was always a chance. And yes, i spend a game time on that to reach - plus for devs. Now “+ for devs” is, that i spend 700mil within a short period of time on skills, because i liked to push that button. But i’m not get out (even if no-one’s care). There is a cool feature, but maybe it’s got to be improved to people have a choice and understand the difference to fly or not.
An irresistible discussion. Here are the official reasons for the change, straight from the devblog (highlights are mine).
The change to the system involves how pilots acquire the core skills that they train. We’re calling this new method of obtaining core training “Skills on Demand”.
New pilots are often confused by having to use the market to buy a new skill to train. The system is difficult to understand and requiring knowledge of a secondary system – the market – to be able to set up a solid skill plan during the first steps of their new life as a capsuleer.
With this change we want to ensure the best of both worlds. We don’t want the need to travel to gather skills posing a barrier to training and we want to ensure that pilots spend less time obtaining skills to train and more time out there enjoying their time in New Eden.
All this for the extra 30% cost, which is only visible to those who already know how to use the market.
New pilots have to learn the market as soon as they run career agent tutorials anyway.
Not having to undock for getting skill books opens time to undock to do other stuff (last paragraph in quote). Risky huh ?
“It’s a book, it should be downloadable”. Or “I bought something, it should be delivered to my doorstep because this is the 30000th century” is only slighty more hyperbole (Rookies are equally confused by having to undock to get the stuff, btw).
It’s nothing special. It’s a convenience under some circumstances, at a price increase of 30% on regular npc market price, and a particularly harsh tax increase under other circumstances. And there is no skill book any new pilot has to fly to Jita for. Make of it what you want, use it if you want but pay the price.
The reason’s they stated is definitely a bunch of hyperbole. You’re right, it is a convenience. What they don’t say is it was implemented mainly for Nul Sec players so they can quickly train up alt characters without needing to travel to high sec for skillbooks. The extra isk spent for those skillbooks is nothing for them. Brisc Rubal is a Corporate shill for CCP so everything is Lolly Pops and Rainbows. That other poster is filled with spite, animosity and hate, always initiates conflict, will then twist and change things around with constant harassment in an attempt to prove others wrong.
My oldest friend and corpmate in this game took his Brutix into Egghelende to buy and inject or carry back to HS (back before you could inject books without having the prereqs trained, ofc) a cheap skillbook for sale there… and he got jumped by some dudes.
Skillbooks generated more content in the past than they do now. I’m pretty sure that’s all DMC meant.
Was it worthwile? I dunno, ask those dudes who jumped my friend.
I personally still pick up skillbooks from the nearest NPC station. I’m a cheapskate. That’s how you get rich, eh?
Yet there are newbs who are confused by the new system, as well… correct me if I’m wrong, but does the NPE now mention all the options for buying and training skills? The NPE needs to mention NPC stations/sell orders (usually cheapest) vs. player orders at trade hubs and random places (in between) vs. new system to buy 'em out of thin air (usually most expensive) as the 3 main options.
Last time I did the NPE was with toons I made over a year ago. Annnnd… Aura auto-injected and auto-trained Marketing 1… Racial Frigate 1… and Small Racial Turret 1. But then other skills like Reprocessing (formerly Refining), Mass Production, Advanced Industry were all career agent rewards from 2j away from the rookie system… so… yeah, very mixed messages, and nowhere a clear and complete explanation.
And that’s just a nonsense. Just because they do not create any content any more (which is not proven), does not mean that removing them did actually reduce the amount of PVP.
Maybe your friend would have found another reason to lose a ship, if there was no skillbooks to buy. It’s not like they are the only reason to undock.
True. But maybe he would have lost a ship for another reason AND lost the ship from trying to get a nice deal on a skillbook in lowsec, just 1j from the “safety” of HS.
Only CCP can say for sure, if the logs don’t show nothing.
They can’t. It’s just something that’s too complex to be proven with statistics.
The question is : what was the effect of HAVING TO go buy base skillbooks.
Yes it did produce a window of opportunity for PVP. But at the same time it was a deterrent to do other actions that required those skillbooks, specifically because of this PVP window and the time cost.
I’m not saying that removing it was better for PVP.
I’m saying that there is no clear indication if it was beneficial or detrimental for PVP, that in worse case the effect was very small since it happened a very few times in a capsuleer life, and that people complaining about that “loss” are talking out of their ass - while they also dare ask for “official statement” for other ideas. Double standard…
Fair enough. I got no dog in the race (like I said, I prefer to drive to the skillbook shop to browse and get the cheapest price personally, but I have used the new system once or twice as well), just thought it was funny I had an anecdote similar to what DMC’s been saying in here with you and Brisc. Entertaining reading, guys.
“New Skill with a Simple Click and Readily Injected”,
30% more ISK from your newbie wallet, which you will only find out about later
“if it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t” 
