[Devblog] The Future of Force Projection Feedback Thread

They have rational reasons for doing this. Old ansi incentivised alliances to team up in blocs and form a blue donut, and because they allowed such rapid mobilisation, made it prohibitively difficult for smaller groups to punch upwards, and much easier for larger groups to punch downward. The idea here is to both break up the blocs and to help new groups claim sovereignty of their own.

Whether it will work is dubious, but ansis needed to go and this is one of the less disruptive ways to do it.

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Yeah man, because they understand that force projection supresses more fights than it generates.

One can only see the the fights that happen, but that is “survivorshp bias”. One doesn’t see the fight that never happen because people don’t engage, knowing they are in immediate jumprange of a large reinforcement fleet.

Geography needs to be important again, you have absolutely no business interfering in a fight going on 10 or 15 jumps (gate) away. Conflicts have to stay locally, so smaller groups can bash it out on their own, without some large blob jumping on them all the time. And for this, the ability of large groups to throw around their fleets at will needs to be severly limited. Protect your homeland - okay, grow too big and your borders become vulnerable for assaults - unless you are willing to put troops there that permanently live there and defend it instead of idling in a main staging system and waiting to “jump on someone”.

If it was up to me, Ansis would be totally removed, EVE worked fine without them. And cynos/jumpdrives are hopefully the next target for their force-projection redesign. Hotdropping is pure cancer these days.

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Even worse is another form of projection which unlike of the force projection you already mentioned doesn’t even have a healthy range limit!

It’s time we do something about wormholes. Limit their connection range to 20 LY and cut their mass in half. That’ll teach those projecters projecting their fleets all across the universe!

Just kidding :face_with_tongue:

You are both being hyperbolic, and EvE wouldn’t be EvE without “suddenly spaceships!!”

I don’t do enough null to know if this ansi change is sensible or crazy and only time will tell if it achieves it’s donought busting goals.

Wormholes and jumpdrives are working just fine.

Just in case you missed the hidden text, I was kidding about wormholes.

I think a nerf to ansiblex force projection is good, I just question the way it is done.

By blocking ansiblexes based on capacitor, something we individual players have no control over, this makes ansiblexes very unreliable as you never know if someone pushed their battleships through just before you arrive at the ansiblex you took a detour for to get a shortcut.

And then because of something outside your control your shortcut is suddenly much longer than if you had taken regular gates.

You could get stuck at one, caught by enemies and no way to jump through because of something completely out of your control.

I would much prefer fatigue over this: I have full control over my fatigue and know when I can and cannot jump.

The fact that Okami prefers capacitor over fatigue “because fatigue is as frustrating as getting stun locked” therefore is a bad argument.

Stun locks happen when you least expect it and leave you with no control over the situation.

I have control over fatigue.

I have no control over the capacitor of an ansiblex. The ansiblex is going to be down when I least expect it, with no way to plan for it.

Ansiblex capacitor seems far more frustrating and unpredictable than fatigue.

I like that we get ansiblex nerfs but this is the wrong change.

Please limit projection, but do it in a way we can plan for.

Please don’t use capacitor.

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Totally wrong. Lowsec was a PvP paradise when hotdropping there was an absolute non issue. I know for sure, I was there.

Jumping through a Cyno took around a minute before you could actually fight with the reinforcements, which made small gangs basically immune to hotdrops. They would burn away or deagress and jump the gate or dock the moment a cyno goes up. Or kill the cynoship if they have enough firepower.
Even if something got trough, Dreads had no HAW guns and were totally useless against smaller ships, Carriers could save someone (Triage) but were pretty weak offensively. Pretty much no one had Supers or Titans and the number of people who had skilled BlackOps you could count on one hand. And they were crap anyway.

And all that leads to a scenario where small to medium pirate corps could even recruit newbros out of highsec to begin fighting in simple cruisers or battlecruisers. They could have their roams, camps, stationgames against other corps of similar size, there were small fights all over the place. In every timezone you had dozens of local groups roaming the area, sometimes fighting each other, sometimes teaming up to fight someone bigger.
And Blobbers like Shadow Cartel and Snuff simply didn’t get any fights any more, because everyone dodged them, they only wanted to stomp down smaller groups anyway. Now guess who “professionalized” in hotdropping. Yeah, exactly those who ruined their own reputation by just blobbing every fight.

No my friend, hotdropping needs to be set back to the point it once was: always delayed enough that catching mobile gangs is impossible. Use cynos to reinforce tactical positions, defend timers, move large fleets from A to B in preparation of a defense or assault. Jump into Structure Battles or Capital Fights where the targets are locked in place. But for everything else, cyno reinforcements should be barely useful.

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Great reply, I still think you’re wrong, but great reply nonetheless.

This isn’t then, many people have trained BLOPS and even after the recent nerfs they are still pretty good. HAW Dreads and useful Carriers are now a thing, and players have had to adjust, this is normal and fine.

We’ve previously discussed ideas for increasing the time it takes for jump drives to work, and I’m not entirely against that idea, even tho it means more CRABers will escape :cry: but we can’t roll back the clock to a time before and making every fight escapable will not improve EvE.

Not every fight is escapable if cynos/jumpdrives are set back to a ~1 minute delay. Stations cannot run, Capitals are locked in Siege. Proper baiting and tackling does exist.

The only thing that changes (back) is that you actually would need skill and preparation to send out a bait’n’tackle group that can hold it’s own long enough to survive instead of sending a single Arazu/Proteus/Loki, yelling “JUMP JUMP JUMP” on comms and be sure your ships are there after 5 seconds, with longrange tackle, webs, EWAR, RR and DPS, totally obliterating what is on grid.

I simply like a game better, where you have to earn your kills by proper preparation, baiting, tactical placement of your forces, inlcuding evaluating warp-distances, ship speeds, tank/rr amounts etc. pp. And if you make a mistake, your bait squad will go up in flames before your reinforcements are on scene. And thats fine.
Hotdropping today is almost an 100% win guarantee, unless you did fall for a bait by an even bigger group. Which doesn’t happen that often if we look at the success rates for BlackOps on zKill.

And if a mechanic is harmful for 95% of the playerbase, only benefiting a very small part of the population which already is so rich and powerful that they could easily use any other tool to get the fights they want, it simply has to be either totally removed or nerfed in a way it can’t be used to wipe out smaller/newer/weaker group’s gameplay by being nothing but a giant insta-curbstomp button.

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I wish I could like this comment more than once. This, in my opinion, is the entire problem of a lot of LS.

Little knowledge of Null but removal sounds fine. Same with most, if not all jump gates in all sectors of space. The borders between space seem artificial…I’d rather just pick a random celestial or belt in the next system and jump to it.

Yeah indeed. And the worst part of it is: Hotdropping is almost exclusively used by the rich and strong groups (very very rare exceptions) that already can dominate any area they want, can pick any fight they want and could get content basically by any other way.

All that hotdropping evolution over the years has done nothing good for the overwhelming majority of the players.

I know you’re kidding, I just like to outline the huge difference to hotdropping in terms of force projection for the audience that isn’t aware of the different mechanics.

You have no control over the destination where that wormhole leads, you have no control over the moment when its spawn and last but not least cannot force anyone to fight right next to it. That goes for the attacker.
The defender on the other hand (someone who lives at the endpoint and feels endangered by it) has pretty easy tools to prevent hostiles coming in: he can roll it away. It’s no witchcraft and the ships to do it are pretty cheap.

But, JSpace could imho absolutely need some re-adjustments in mass- and connection-types giving the ever-growing fleetsize even there. Large blobs should have an incredibly hard time moving big numbers through wormhole connections, unless they go very very low in ship mass (like T3 destroyers). I’d probably reduce maximum total mass / maxium jump mass for a lot of static connections, but leave (or add) mass to random connections which you have no control over.

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This you?

Doesnt look like you get much content..

I think pirates of whichever space their in should have incursions or some thing that scales in size with the alliance maybe.. maybe some other backround additions.. you know the type of incursions whee they do ref citadels and go back on the time.. strong capital size stuff or possibility of npc counterdrops; its not that i mind cap warfare, hell id love to do more but its at that point where any group that has less than 500 or so…
Forgive grammar, tired.

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That’s true for random wormholes.

But with wormhole connection hubs like drifter holes there’s a good chance to find a set of holes that connect you to a target region of your choice though.

You may be disappointed to hear the opposite is about to happen then.

In the pre-patch notes for next week’s update they talk about reducing blops and marauder mass to make them easier to use in wormhole space.

(I don’t know who asked for that or why, and also don’t have enough wormhole experience to judge it but it somehow feels strange to make T2 battleships weigh less just so they get to see more WH space use.)

Dont let queotzoal know this lol

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Isn’t this what cynos and bridges effectively do?

Surely this is the mass loss from the hp bonus being removed.

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Yeah I indeed do not like that. I think it overly benefits the already powerful groups and we will see large marauder-fleets again that are hard to counter unless you can bring even more Marauders.

You simply can only shoot so many, but they all can double their firepower in Bastion. Even if you can kill some because they can’t get repaired in time, the enemy will shred through your fleet much faster because he has basically twice the DPS in each ship. And with a large (and blingy enough) buffer, some of the Marauders will always be able to exit Bastion and get saved by logis anyway.

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With the next release a week away, I think that time has passed…

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If the devs were smart it would use PLEX instead, directly feed PLEX into it to fuel the process. :thinking:

:smiling_face_with_horns: :psyccp: :ccpguard:

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