Neutral logistics happens all the time. The last time it happened to me was back in December, when the fighting was going on Thebeka[1]. Fortunately, some not-so-veiled threats to hunt down the alliance that was providing the neutral logistics with a few hundred professionally offended logistics pilots (RepSwarm currently has 998 unique players registered as members of the SIG) got them to go ahead and declare war on the other side.
And no, I wonât identify which corp in that mess was my alt-corp. It shouldnât be hard with some basic investigation, though.
As for why not make it only apply to warring parties⌠at a guess, because the devs wanted to simplify the number of checks and calls the code has to make, especially with things like the Perimeter Keepstar fights going on.
Mostly because I really havenât had the time to do high-sec shenanigans since then.
Oh so youâre talking about null-sec alliances that have to impede on everyone elses content to get to have their âanchor on me and f1â parties because theyâve ruined all the content they had in null by doing nothing but throwing capitals at each other. RIIIIGHT so this isnât even about high sec PvP anymore. This is more â â â â trying to pander to the only 2 group CCP ever aknowledge, null-bois and PvEers. Glad to know my voice is still being heard!
No, Iâm talking about high-sec warfare. Do pay attention. Thebeka had nothing to do with nullsec alliances (though a couple of guys from CVA did get involved, and CVA sent a fleet to Sarum Prime to kill a solo-pvperâs fortizar during that window). I used my position within a null-sec coalition to âencourageâ one side of the high-sec war to stop being dicks and get their neutral logi stuck into the war. Otherwise, Goons stayed out of it.
So weâre going to make all these changes based on one or two experiences some null-bois had in high-sec? Remove years of tradition and multiple communities of PvPers because of a couple bad experiences the null-bois had?
And again Iâll ask, then why not make the change specific to wartargets and leave the rest of us alone. This leaves nothing but suicide ganking and trade-hub camping for those of us that enjoy high-sec PvP.
Really, I wasnât aware neutral logi was needed for duels, stealing mission runners objectives, war decs to target ships or structuresâŚ
You sound as if you relied on them heavily when you start complaining it removes these things.
Theyâre also not wardec corps or highsec PvPers and arenât creating content in high-sec every day. So weâre going to remove a shitton of content from the people who do because of a few one-off experiences these people have had? These arenât the entities in High-Sec every day. You have to consider how these changes affect the people who do this ALL THE TIME. Changing it based on an outsiders experience is stupid.
They are very much both in high-sec every day. As is LUMEN, another group involved in that conflict. Just because theyâre not losing or killing ships in highsec doesnât mean theyâre not there.
And I have considered how these changes will affect the people who do this ALL THE TIME. Thatâs why I specifically asked Tora Bushido, the guy who runs Marmite, how this would affect them upthread.
Suspect baiting, believe it or not, is one of the few ways left for smaller groups to get engagements. And as it stands currently the only way other than suicide ganking that a suspects fleet can interact with an engagement is through remote assistance.
Keep in mind the War Dec alliances have a response to the change. They can just put their logi alts in the corp/alliance. Suspects are left out in the cold. If this change goes through, if Iâm suspect, Iâm solo, and everyone can shoot me. Obviously no longer feasible.
After this change communities that have been going for 10+ years will no longer exist because they no longer have a way to play with each other. Weâre not going to bash structures, and we donât want to be in massive âanchor on me and f1â fleets.
Yes we hear the peanut gallery, you do not have the game-knowledge required to provide any valuable insight on the topic. Please stop interrupting the real conversation thatâs going on. Thank you.
Why yes, the kill board of a basically inactive character is totally an indication on what game knowledge I have. You are so smart and funny bringing up the killboard of a forum character.
And they plan to. And thatâs fine, because it means that the people theyâve declared war on can shoot the logi pilots if they find them out in space, even when thereâs no fleet formed. They couldnât do that before.
Yes, if youâre suspect, youâre solo. Good job noticing the intention of the changes here.
Suspect-baiting communities, you mean? Yeah, you might actually have to not try taking advantage of someone being unable to see the two or three friends youâve got ready to help you out in a âsoloâ fight. You wonât be able to dogpile a single pilot with 4 guys and still show up as âsoloâ on the killmail while you wank about how awesome you are at fishing in a barrel with dynamite. âI get all the fish, every time!â
God forbid anyone get in the way of you getting to be a douche, right?
Ahhh and there it is. The bias. So you can do it but if someone else does it their assholes. You act like literally every PvP entity in this game doesnât function this way. They do, and if they didnât, they wouldnât function, and trying to force them to just leads to an extremely stale PvP environment.
This response is the equivalent of me looking at Goonswarms killboard and saying âoh you guys brought a +1 to a fight that means youâre a doucheâ. Of course Iâm going to have to sift through engagements that Iâm going to overkill before I find the 1 that escalates, thatâs how suspect baiting works. It also leads to extremely variable engagements that are a lot of fun (IE something other than f1 anchor ferox).
Nope. Weâre assholes, too. Weâre just assholes out where CCPâs saying âgo be assholesâ. Theyâre telling you not to be quite such assholes in high-sec anymore. You wanna be assholes, be assholes where theyâre still ok with it.
We are. Yep. 100% agree. Weâre just douches where weâre supposed to be.
âSupposed to beâ? So we have safe-spaces now? Furthermore you think this is going to make us go to nullsec? Newsflash, Iâm never going back to that content barren wasteland.
What this is actually going to do is make the content that we offer FAR WORSE for our opponents as now we will just warp in a fleet of cats and suicide gank everything. Great content for both parties involved right?
The content that I offer as a suspect is completely avoidable. You literally have to opt-in by shooting me. The content Iâm going to offer after this change has no such mechanic and will be much worse for the environment I can assure you.
If thatâs where you place the incentives, thatâs what youâre going to get. vOv
I think CCPâs clearly making HS a safer space than itâs been. Itâs their game, they can do that.
Nope. Frankly, I donât care where you go.
Go for it.
Yup. And then when they do, you bring out your friends so you can make sure they never had a chance. You want to go âfind the 1 that escalatesâ, great. Just donât pretend you go suspect-baiting hoping to get that one. Anyone whoâs ever been on either side of that game knows itâs not about actually getting a fight, itâs about picking on the weaker kids, just like Marmite and PIRATâs game.
You want to be the guy beating up the kid in the helmet, hey, thatâs your thing, and thereâs room for it in EVE. Just donât expect anyone to be particularly sympathetic to your plight when the refs decide maybe itâs time to stop you from punching below the belt while you do it.
Except of course that this change doesnât âmakeâ you do that. it is entirely possible to suspect bait solo, itâs just not as much as an easy win. You just want to blame CCP for your own desires here.
note, Iâve nothing against ganking, but donât pull the âOh poor us, CCP made us do itâ routine. Own your ganking.
