Fetching my next bag of popcorn and casually waiting for the count on this thread to reach 1000.
Frankly, most of the arguments here seem like much ado about very little. And if someone can’t adapt their game to these changes, maybe they shouldn’t be playing EVE.
Yes I shoot people as a PROFESSION. IE I make money from my engagements. I actually do enjoy getting a good fight but actively searching for them is not profitable.
Punching below the belt? Man you guys are really full of yourselves. That’s how the game is played, and the day it’s not played that way it ceases to exist. You can try to change it all you want but the sub count is just going to plummet.
Some people want to be the bad guy. I’m one of those people. I’ve been the holy knight in enough games to know that it’s stale and played out. You could naively say that makes me a bad person though if you met me in real life, or talked to me in comms I highly doubt you would retain that sentiment.
It’s a video game, a very dynamic video game at that. The fact that it is so dynamic is the only reason the game has been around for as long as it has. The more of those dynamics that you remove the closer this game gets to being nothing but a fond memory.
You fail to understand (yet again) how my profession works. In order for it to be profitable, I have to ransom people, in order for me to ransom people I have to stabilize the engagement and account for them bringing in backup. If I do not account for this they will simply stall until their friends show up, resulting in a very one sided engagement the other way given how suspect mechanics work.
If I want GUD FITES I’ll go to low sec, if I want to pay my subs with interesting and variable content I suspect bait.
And it’s totally legit to want to be the bad guy. But like I said: don’t expect people to think it’s so very terrible when the bad guy is forced to adapt. God knows we’ve done it, again and again. And we’ll keep doing it.
I would never call someone a bad person for choosing to play the part of a villain. Villains are what make for interesting stories. But at the same time… if you’re gonna be the villain, that comes with all the attendant baggage.
I’m not changing anything. I’m not one of the developers. If I was, I’d be pushing for a much more sweeping set of changes that goes waaaay past wardecs… cuz without them, you’ll never fix high-sec conflict. High-sec conflict should be dynamic, it should be engaging, and it should absolutely be deeper and more complex than it is. You think suspect-baiting is ‘dynamic’? You think ganking is ‘dynamic’?
It’s about as dynamic as mugging someone… or, for suspect-ganking, hitching a ride and then murdering the guy who picks you up. And frankly, after 15 years of it… that’s pretty stale and played out, too.
LOL, what? Where have I said anything about Logi being (or not being) a problem? And what does my killboard or me being a (clueless, LOL) anti-ganker have to do with this? Are you on drugs?
WTF are you talking about? Where/when have I ever vied for my playstyle to be easier? Citation needed, please. So far it’s you who is talking ■■■■■■■■ about me here with no citation to support your claims at all…
ROFLMAO. You’re having some kind of mental illness, not looking at anything. You just linked my killboard, which has nothing to do with anything being talked about here, and are talking about something I’ve supposedly said that so far I have no idea what could it possibly be and you haven’t proved I said at all…
Regardless of whether this is true or not (which at this point I honestly can’t be bothered to even consider, because you’re clearly unable of any kind of rational analysis), WTF does it have to do with anything I’ve said anywhere?
It’s pretty obvious for anyone to see who is totally out of his mind here…
Where have I tried to deprive you of any content? Citation needed, please, zKill won’t do.
It’s far more dynamic than structure bashing and suicide ganking which is all that will be left for 99% of high-sec PvP. This is the content that your average player will be the victim of. Everyone totes the NPE. Man I make the NPE awesome. Any time I catch a new player they get to see a lot of REALLY cool ■■■■. We’ll recruit them too if their skin is thick enough.
My team of guys really brings in a lot of long-term subs for CCP. Sure we run some people off, but if they’re going to quit over losing a ship they weren’t going to last long anyways. On the other hand if someone is the type of player that will last in this game we show them how literally every mechanic, all the way down to killrights, works as far as high-sec is concerned and give them an introduction to some of the coolest ■■■■ you can do in this game.
You wouldn’t understand unless you’ve seen my stream or know how our ransom works, and I’m not going to explain it here because it’s not a smart medium for me to do so as I’ll just get flamed by endless white knights and it will distract from the conversation at hand. What I will say is this change is a MASSIVE miss-step by CCP and points the incentives concerning profitable high-sec PvP (most high-sec PvP) in a very un-fun (for both parties) direction.
Yes we hear the peanut gallery, you do not have the game-knowledge required to provide any valuable insight on the topic. Please stop interrupting the real conversation that’s going on. Thank you.
See, I read that, and I see a bunch of wanking off about how cool you are and how the things you do are amazingly cool and if new players don’t appreciate how awesome you are when you take a crap all over them, then they’re just pansies, and CCP should be thanking you for saving the game every single day.
And that’s a hell of a claim for any one person to be making. Also, @Nyctos: 5.
Most the people I catch end up watching my stream and contributing. Put an otherwise solo mission runner with no real purpose to their gameplay in a community that shows them repeatedly how all the mechanics work and shows them what not to do and see how much longer he sticks with the game. I’m literally training my (in-game) enemies.
I stream to my own detriment just to show that we’re sincere (IRL though in game we are still roleplaying the dirty pirates xD) but everyone here is too caught up on internet-spaceship-ethics (without actually being involved in the activities we’re talking about) to be able to see it.
Sorry, but you’re not going to make me shut up after having “invited” me to this nonsense yourself…
Put your money where your mouth is. It was YOU who claimed out of nowhere that I said that Logi is a problem, or that I was vying for my playstyle, or that I was trying to deprive you of any content…
So again, where did I say whatever it is that you claim I said?
Hmm, you didn’t actually. I apologize, I must have been reading someone elses post but looked your name up on Zkill MUH BAD DOOD
Just to clarify that: I don’t think that’s what you were trying to convey. But that’s how it was coming across. And as a Goon, I’m used to filtering for obnoxious arrogance, so if I’m seeing that, you should probably stop and consider how you’re coming across to other people.
And if you’re using your stream to educate people and show them how things work, that’s great, you know? Helping people to understand the mechanics they’re dealing with and how to be better at what they’re trying to do is one of the most enjoyable aspects of EVE. That sort of ‘taking people under your wing and helping them learn’ is a big part of why we’ve got the player retention we have, compared to other groups out here that just let people churn and never take the time to help them learn.
But that doesn’t change the math. What you’re talking about as a play-style is something that was unaffected when the devblog first went live, and they changed the mechanics over last weekend to make it work the way it’s going to now. So clearly, it’s something they want to address, or it’s something they see as less critical than streamlining the code.
So we wind up back at ‘adapt or die’.
@nyctos: 1. If you’re gonna, best go now…
Clearly they are trying to bubble-wrap highsec but do not understand that it is already bubble-wrapped to infinity and the only thing they ever really change is making the content worse for the people they’re trying to protect.
And I will adapt, but it’s not going to be good for anyone. If that’s what CCP thinks they want that’s what they’ll get vOv
EDIT: And concerning my tone, I purposefully come across abrasive out of the gate to get people to respond. I’m a social engineer by trade afterall 
Nah, no bubbles in high-sec. (couldn’t resist).
And I get what you’re saying about how the changes may push things in a direction CCP doesn’t want… but I feel like that’s sort of inevitable when they’re doing these isolated ‘we’ll adjust this thing over here’ without really stopping to look at how the whole thing fits together.
And coming across as abrasive may get responses… but it also gets people defensive and digging in, right off the bat. It’s not the greatest way to get an actual dialog going.
Also, poor @Nyctos. He missed post 1000. Hope the popcorn was good.
Arrendis, I just don’t see the big deal about the change. You said so yourself that the biggest factor in discouraging other players in engaging is “how many neutral logi do they have that I can’t see?”.
Neutral Logi is handy mostly because of how nice it is to have a scout that can jump into a fight at a moments notice. That’s why and how highsec mercs use it. Someone like Tora Bushido has every single alt of anyone that’s worth knowing marked down so he knows prior to an engagement. I have no doubt that Tora has all of my alts in his little black book, because he’s good at what he does.
So I’m just letting you know that there will be an existing loophole around this fix, and that it won’t matter in the least. I wonder if people will be more willing to fight us when they find that we’ve moved our logi in-house when we generally fly 2 logi to 1 dps for bigger fleet stuff.
But you can always shoot structures! /sarcasm
Oh, there’s a number of work-arounds. For one thing, you can just not have the logi join corp until they warp onto grid. But, like I said in my first post in the thread, the change is nice, but it really does need more work to it. There needs to be a carve-out for ‘same war, same fleet’ so small alliances can cooperate to defend themselves, and something needs to be done about ‘Oh, well, we’ll just have everyone in the PIRAT fleet jump into 112 Corporation and completely avoid any expoure to half our enemies’.
Without those… this won’t encourage actual warfare at all, just more extortion and kicking the little guy.
Faylee’s PIRAT. They already do, when the owners won’t pay up.
There is no change that you can make that will encourage large PvP entities in high-sec to shoot at each other (at a mutual loss) instead of shooting at PvEers (for profit). This is a PvP game, if you want to PvE by yourself or in 100% safety, you still cannot ignore the PvP aspect of the game. It’s not practical and this game would cease to exist if it was. It’s easy to feel sorry for “the little guy (that has billions, possibly trillions, of isk but refuses to use any of that to defend his assets)” but in the grand scheme of things HTFU is the EvE motto and will be until the game dies.
There is a PvP tax (so to speak) that EVERYONE must pay in order for this game to continue to function.
Except that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about retaining mechanisms for multiple smaller groups to help one another defend from the larger group, and introducing mechanisms to prevent aggressors from corp-hopping when they realize that someone bigger than them has showed up to give them some pushback.
Don’t you need to be docked to do that? So you at least get a little warning with a structure defence.